(This thread is getting terribly interesting)
I generally think Wikipedia should be a strictly non interfering observer
for various aspects, language included. I fear if a wiki tries to set a
model for a language it may be a model which doesn't represent the reality
of that language: small wikis are often monopolized by a few users. That's
not a fault per se but it may introduce a significant bias in linguistic
models used.
About one of Amir's emails I think a "small" Wikipedia edition is sign of a
series of situations, one of the most common of is an endangered language.
While planning should differentiate between endangered and non endangered
language I think most of problems we have to face are related to languages
endangered at various levels.
On a more practical and less ideological note, I should note that even
though I didn't run the numbers, I strongly suspect that translating 10,000
articles to 100 languages is considerably cheaper than teaching 7 billion
people English.
I don't why but I tend to second your suspects :p
Vito
2018-02-27 16:53 GMT+01:00 Peter Southwood <peter.southwood(a)telkomsa.net>et>:
If the people creating the basic encyclopaedic
terminology and style in
the language are native speakers, then it would not be a thing imposed from
outside. It would be a development within the language, just like it was
with the languages that already have encyclopaedias. The basic
encyclopaedic terminology and style in languages that have then also had to
be created before it existed, it just happened earlier. Living languages
evolve to deal with the realities of the present. Those which don’t, tend
to die out as they become less useful. Cheers, Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On
Behalf Of Vi to
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2018 1:43 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid translation
I see Amir's points, which are pretty reasonable, but I fear this would
suit languages with a significant presence on the web.
Among them I agree with points 1, 3 and 4 while I'm not sure about #2
"creating basic encyclopedic terminology and style in that language", if we
want to preserve a language we shouldn't create a thing.
By the way I was wondering my concerns about cultural colonization may be
addressed -for wikis which has some contents (let's say at least 1000
articles)- by starting expanding existing articles instead of translating
new ones. This would solve the problem of choosing what to translate though
would leave problems about the perspective contents are created.
Vito
2018-02-27 12:31 GMT+01:00 Amir E. Aharoni <amir.aharoni(a)mail.huji.ac.il>il>:
2018-02-27 13:00 GMT+02:00 mathieu stumpf guntz
<
psychoslave(a)culture-libre.org>gt;:
Le 24/02/2018 à 18:08, Vi to a écrit :
> *finally I think paid translators would hardly turn into stable
> Wikipedians.
>
> I think this misses an important point that is, we don't need the
initial
translator to turn into a sustaining editor, we
need the article to
evolve
with call to action incentives. And articles
which don't exist at
all – even as a stub – or don't meet an audience of potential
contributors will never catch such an evolving cycle.
This is one of the issues with what I alluded to in my earlier email
in this thread: the privilege that the "big" languages have. It's the
privilege of already having other encyclopedias, textbooks, public
education, etc., in this language. A lot of languages don't have these
things. When you speak a language that has had these things before
Wikipedia came along, it's hard to perceive the world like a person
who speaks a language that doesn't perceives it.
If you define the purpose of paying somebody to translate as "turning
the paid translator" into a sustaining editor, then this is indeed
likely to fail.
But if you define the purpose differently, it may succeed. For
example, you may define the purpose as one or more of the following:
* Demonstrating that it's possible to write an encyclopedia in that
language
* Creating basic encyclopedic terminology and style in that language
* Creating a bunch of basic articles that would appear in
interlanguage links in Wikipedias from bigger languages (English,
French, etc.)
* Creating a bunch of basic articles that would appear in search
results from internet search engines
The existence of these things may bring in people who will become
volunteer sustaining editors.
--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live
in peace.” – T. Moore _______________________________________________
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