Hi Rogol,
Yes, to a point. But if we tried to have every discussion on this list that
was categorized as "Organizational issues of the Wikimedia Foundation,
chapter organizations", "Planning elections, polls and votes", and
"Other
Wikimedia-related issues", this list would be so flooded with traffic as to
be nearly unusable. So discretion is advised in how many new topics one
brings to this list.
If you ask my opinion of "is the TCoC now in force", the answer would be
no, but I don't know that it's a wise use of time to ask that question on
this list in present circumstances. If WMF decides to try to enforce the
TCoC without an RfC on the whole document, then I think it would be fine to
come back to this list for discussion.
The way that you phrase your questions sometimes comes across to me as
having an edge than is more confrontational than I think is necessary, and
I am finding the tone to be a distraction from what is, I think, our mutual
goal of trying to align WMF more with the community. Sometimes carrots work
better than sticks. I have a long list of changes that I would like WMF to
make, but cultural change is a long term process, and sometimes patience
works better than demands.
Pine
On Sat, Mar 4, 2017 at 12:27 PM, Rogol Domedonfors <domedonfors(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Well, one of us is in the wrong place. I'm
posting to the list described
as "Discussion list for *the Wikimedia community* and the larger network of
organizations [...] supporting its work." – my emphasis. It seems that
"This mailing list can, for example, be used for: [...]
The initial planning phase of potential new Wikimedia projects and
initiatives
Organizational issues of the Wikimedia Foundation, chapter organizations,
others
Discussing the setup of local Wikimedia chapters
Developing and evaluating grant-making programs
Planning elections, polls and votes
Discussion of projects that don't already have a mailing list
Finding ways to raise funds
Other Wikimedia-related issues
My post relates to items 1,2,5 and 8 on that list.
"Rogol"
On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 6:45 PM, Joseph Seddon <jseddon(a)wikimedia.org>
wrote:
This list is *a* community but it certainly does
not constitute The
Community™ nor are we the community affected by this code of conduct.
I suggest raising this in venues appropriate to the particular community
in
question, in this case the technical community.
Before bringing this
topic
here it would have been far more appropriate to
raise your concerns on a
more aligned mailing list such as wikitech-l. All of whom would be
affected
by the code of conduct and who have been notified
regularly about it.
I also suggest you keep in mind that the technical community does have a
higher percentage of staff members from many organisations in comparison
to
the number of volunteers. Simply being staff
members does not preclude
them
from being a part of that community and does not
preclude their ability
to
participate in their own self-governance.
It would be hypercritical of us if we as the wikimedia-l list were to
parachute into the governance of a community relatively few of us are a
part of.
Seddon
On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 5:30 PM, David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote:
This assumes the relevant Community is here now
on this very list,
which is an extremely questionable assumption. As has been noted ad
nauseam already. At this point this thread appears hard to distinguish
from forum shopping.
On 2 March 2017 at 17:16, Rogol Domedonfors <domedonfors(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> I'm not asking Matt. I'm asking the
Community – here, now, on this
very
> list.
>
> "Rogol"
>
> On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 7:44 AM, Pine W <wiki.pine(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Rogol,
>>
>> Please don't assume that Matt thinks that the TCoC is now in effect.
Try
> >> asking him, preferably on the relevant talk page.
> >>
> >> I'm well aware of the challenges with the TCoC, but let's not make
it
more
> difficult than it is already, OK?
>
> Pine
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 11:31 PM, Rogol Domedonfors <
domedonfors(a)gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Matt Flaschen has declared the final amendment to the code of
conduct
> for
> >> > Wikimedia technical spaces approved and although he has not said
so
> >> > explicitly, I assume that his
current position is that it is now
in
>>
force.
>> > Even asuming that is correct, and previous consensus was against
that,
> >> andI
> >> > there is still signficiant disagreement on this list, it can
hardly
> have
> >> > any practical effect until it is published. But first --
> >> >
> >> > Does the Community accept that this Code of Conduct is now in
force?
>>
>
>> > "Rogol"
>> > _______________________________________________
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*Advancement Associate (Community Engagement)*
*Wikimedia Foundation*
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