Hi Rogol,
Yes, to a point. But if we tried to have every discussion on this list that was categorized as "Organizational issues of the Wikimedia Foundation, chapter organizations", "Planning elections, polls and votes", and "Other Wikimedia-related issues", this list would be so flooded with traffic as to be nearly unusable. So discretion is advised in how many new topics one brings to this list.
If you ask my opinion of "is the TCoC now in force", the answer would be no, but I don't know that it's a wise use of time to ask that question on this list in present circumstances. If WMF decides to try to enforce the TCoC without an RfC on the whole document, then I think it would be fine to come back to this list for discussion.
The way that you phrase your questions sometimes comes across to me as having an edge than is more confrontational than I think is necessary, and I am finding the tone to be a distraction from what is, I think, our mutual goal of trying to align WMF more with the community. Sometimes carrots work better than sticks. I have a long list of changes that I would like WMF to make, but cultural change is a long term process, and sometimes patience works better than demands.
Pine
On Sat, Mar 4, 2017 at 12:27 PM, Rogol Domedonfors domedonfors@gmail.com wrote:
Well, one of us is in the wrong place. I'm posting to the list described as "Discussion list for *the Wikimedia community* and the larger network of organizations [...] supporting its work." – my emphasis. It seems that "This mailing list can, for example, be used for: [...]
The initial planning phase of potential new Wikimedia projects and initiatives Organizational issues of the Wikimedia Foundation, chapter organizations, others Discussing the setup of local Wikimedia chapters Developing and evaluating grant-making programs Planning elections, polls and votes Discussion of projects that don't already have a mailing list Finding ways to raise funds Other Wikimedia-related issues
My post relates to items 1,2,5 and 8 on that list.
"Rogol"
On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 6:45 PM, Joseph Seddon jseddon@wikimedia.org wrote:
This list is *a* community but it certainly does not constitute The Community™ nor are we the community affected by this code of conduct.
I suggest raising this in venues appropriate to the particular community
in
question, in this case the technical community. Before bringing this
topic
here it would have been far more appropriate to raise your concerns on a more aligned mailing list such as wikitech-l. All of whom would be
affected
by the code of conduct and who have been notified regularly about it.
I also suggest you keep in mind that the technical community does have a higher percentage of staff members from many organisations in comparison
to
the number of volunteers. Simply being staff members does not preclude
them
from being a part of that community and does not preclude their ability
to
participate in their own self-governance.
It would be hypercritical of us if we as the wikimedia-l list were to parachute into the governance of a community relatively few of us are a part of.
Seddon
On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 5:30 PM, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
This assumes the relevant Community is here now on this very list, which is an extremely questionable assumption. As has been noted ad nauseam already. At this point this thread appears hard to distinguish from forum shopping.
On 2 March 2017 at 17:16, Rogol Domedonfors domedonfors@gmail.com
wrote:
I'm not asking Matt. I'm asking the Community – here, now, on this
very
list.
"Rogol"
On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 7:44 AM, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
Rogol,
Please don't assume that Matt thinks that the TCoC is now in effect.
Try
asking him, preferably on the relevant talk page.
I'm well aware of the challenges with the TCoC, but let's not make
it
more
difficult than it is already, OK?
Pine
On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 11:31 PM, Rogol Domedonfors <
domedonfors@gmail.com>
wrote:
Matt Flaschen has declared the final amendment to the code of
conduct
for
Wikimedia technical spaces approved and although he has not said
so
explicitly, I assume that his current position is that it is now
in
force.
Even asuming that is correct, and previous consensus was against
that,
andI
there is still signficiant disagreement on this list, it can
hardly
have
any practical effect until it is published. But first --
Does the Community accept that this Code of Conduct is now in
force?
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