Christophe
Thanks for replying!
This is something the board should be paying attention to, as undisclosed paid editing that causes scandal that reaches mainstream media on a regular basis, damages the reputation of Wikipedia, and is something that both Jimmy Wales and Sue Gardner (when she was ED) made strong public statements about.
See: * https://www.ft.com/content/3f726eba-bb6f-11e4-b95c-00144feab7de * http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/01/wikimedia-foundation-employee-ous... * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2012-10-01/Paid_e... * http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2012/09/19/new-wikipedia-scandal-uk-head-was-pai...
And there are many more references to this issue in mainstream media.
Doing nothing, especially when WMF representatives make strong statements and there are legal remedies available (WMF legal sent a cease-and-desist order to Wiki-PR with regard to use of the Wikipedia name even before the ToU were strengthened) opens the WMF to criticism and makes those strong statements appear to be just empty rhetoric. Action is possible. Where is it?
------ Original Message ------ From: "Christophe Henner" chenner@wikimedia.org To: "Wikimedia Mailing List" wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: 1/2/2017 3:51:49 AM Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Where is WMF with pursuing companies that offer paid editing services
Heu
To be fair it's a topic that isn't currently in our plate.
So to be honest, from a board level, I can't really give you an answer right now. As said before, there might be legal constraints we can't foresee.
I made a not to work on that topic, but it might take some time as the current focus is on the strategy process.
Have a very good day,
Le 2 janv. 2017 9:46 AM, "Gnangarra" gnangarra@gmail.com a écrit :
Like most in western countries you'll find most of the WMF staff are currently out of office so I wouldnt expect much back especially not officially from them until after the 9th January.
On 2 January 2017 at 16:42, Jytdog at Wikipedia jytdogtemp1@gmail.com wrote:
This is something that people can natter over endlessly.
The question is to the WMF board and management. These are the people who can authorize action or not. Anything else is just talk.
Again - what discussions has the WMF had, at the corporate decision-making level, about taking legal action against companies that advertise WP editing services and that have no evidence of disclosure as required under the ToU?
Thanks.
On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 11:04 PM, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
Good points, Gnangarra. I started to write out a reply before
realizing
that maybe I would give ideas to our adversaries, so I'll wait here
for
Legal to talk. Perhaps some of us can continue this conversation
behind
closed doors.
Pine
On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 7:59 PM, Gnangarra gnangarra@gmail.com
wrote:
I think it would be nice for a more direct input from the WMF
over those
not following the Terms of use.
I see some potential pitfalls, even in chasing companies that
charge for
content;
- would this draw WMF into a legal editorial position
- would it drive them to further hide their activities
- what would damage would be done if a court says its ok for a
company/individual to control its image even on Wikipedia. we
already
deal with the EUs right to vanish
sometimes its better to not open the can. I think a lot more
discussion
over the implications and impact is needed unfortunately some of
that can
only be behind closed doors it going to need community
trust(something I
think isnt all there at the moment), before asking the WMF legal
to
pick a
fight with anyone.
On 2 January 2017 at 08:52, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
(: I think that Legal could at least describe in general terms
what
they
are currently doing and have plans to do in the near future.
If it turns out that the answers are "we aren't doing much and
we
aren't
planning to do more", then yes, asking the higher-ups to do
something
about
this sounds like a good idea. By the way, I think the timing
for
this
discussion is good, because WMF should be in the early stages
of
formulating the 2017-2018 annual plan.
Happy new year!
Pine
On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 3:53 PM, Jytdog at Wikipedia <
jytdogtemp1@gmail.com
wrote:
Pine, thanks for your reply, but Legal will not do anything
like this
unless they are instructed by management. That is why I
directed my
question to the board and management.
I've asked at Jimbo's talk page (bad timing, archived over
the
holidays,
will repost) and at Katherine's WP talk page.
Am very interested to hear from the board and/or WMF
management on
this.
Jytdog
> Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2016 10:50:07 -0800 > From: Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com > To: Wikimedia Mailing List
wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org,
> Wikimedia Legal legal@wikimedia.org > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Where is WMF with pursuing
companies
that
> offer paid editing services > Message-ID: > <CAF=dyJhC8UqxkOY9FG9diGyobdgbbQaK_
+M=m9E5Bo3aysPAOw@mail.gmail.
> com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Forwarding to Legal. I'm aware of the general problem of
undisclosed
COI
> editing, and agree that there should be some enforcement of
this,
> particularly given that WMF wants to use Wikipedia's NPOV
and RS
policies
> as part of WMF's marketing. I also wonder if WMF might be
able
to
recover
> the costs of enforcement expenses somehow, perhaps by
including
a
statement > in the TOS that says that people and their employers who
engage in
certain > types of undisclosed COI editing must (1) reimburse WMF for
attorney
fees, > court fees, and other related costs of investigations and
enforcement,
and > (2) forfeit all revenue from their related activities to
WMF. My
guess
is
> that significant financial penalties would be a bigger
deterrent
than
> name-and-shame and cease-and-desist letters. > > Pine > >
> > > Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2016 03:50:03 -0500 > From: Jytdog at Wikipedia jytdogtemp1@gmail.com > To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Where is WMF with pursuing companies
that
offer
> paid editing services > Message-ID: > <CAAOzcj3cLaJOhvV6LvtqPTtULdj+
9Ccanmht7EJQVLv+Lqa=Ww@mail.
> gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > I am interested to learn if WMF management or the board has
discussed
> taking legal action against companies that offer services
to
edit
Wikipedia > and that have no on-Wiki presence disclosing their edits
(in en-WP
at
> least) per the Terms of Use. We all know the companies and
their
websites, > where they use the Wikipedia name, etc. I have looked and
never
found
> disclosure by any of those companies in en-WP. I have
looked
and
found
no > public evidence of WMF legal engaging with these companies,
other
than
> Wiki-PR. > > Some en-Wiki editors recently identified a long-term paid
editor
and
> brought the matter to ANI: thread is here > https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia: Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&oldid=757170150# > Earflaps_-_accusations_of_being_an_undisclosed_paid_ > editor_and_a_sock_puppet>. > This brought this whole thing to mind, and is something I
have been
wanting > to ask about. > > Three questions: > > Has this been discussed, and if so, what has/have the
outcomes
been?
> > Also, is there budget for WMF legal to take action against
such
companies? > > If not, would you all please consider that? > > Thanks. > _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
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