I feel really bad for the person who started this thread. I hope and assume
that the WMF response means they have some sort of way to provide support
to someone suffering from ideations of suicide.
In addition to a policy on safe space -- which I know exists and our local
chapter as well as our regular venue have this posted on our namespaces --
I hope that there is documentation and support on this issue as well. If
there isn't one there needs to be. And it should be posted in a position
where it is visible, like the safe space policy.
I've been a member of various online communities, one music mailing list
for 10+ years where we had a person who had very bad PTSD (who eventually
got better) and others who died by suicide, etc. The acting out was a very
difficult situation and one that I have learned to not take lightly. It is
a lot like life, where you don't know what's going on for people, but it
definitely makes me pause a bit in interactions online.
This editor and their editing may be an extreme case, but they are not
alone. I hope they know that from the few responses here.
I have had bad interactions with obstructive, bullying, and Wikipedia rule
tossing folks. When I have started pages I hold my breath and hope that the
work doesn't get deleted -- or even scrutinized harshly. When I feel
passionate about a topic I will try to fight for notability but it's always
dicey. Then I see articles up on Wikipedia that have no business being up
there, have two citations and are paragraphs long, but are not challenged,
subject to the type of scrutiny the new stuff I contribute, etc.
Also, adding content. Good content with citations (I'm obsessed with
citations). Having it deleted. Being told it is too encyclopedic (yes!).
Editors deleting content is a real problem. It just takes one to be an
intransigent jerk and bully or rule throw their way into making the
experience uncooperative. Sigh.
So I tend to have a very long list of stuff I want to work on, much of it
in dustier corners of Wikipedia. Thankfully my attention wanders and if a
page heats up, I unfollow and try to walk away and refocus.... Sometimes I
can do that. I had to do that for Louis C.K.'s TV show Horace and Pete (
) because the editing became
super unpleasant.
Then as a counterbalance....
There are times like the collective editing to improve the page on the
Reverend Clem Pinckney (
),
who was killed in South Carolina during a prayer group by a white
supremacist, and the collective creation of a page on the setting of that
tragedy, a Wikipedia entry on the church, Mother Emanuel (
),
that was long overdue for an article due to its historical importance in
the African-American community. And a few other times when I've edited with
other editors, learned stuff, just enjoyed geeking out with another person
passionate about making Wikipedia better and more representative of the
world we live in.
I would love to do more cooperative editing. Most of the editathons we help
out with here in NYC focus on the new editor. I think we all have a lot to
offer each other, folks who have been adding content for a while and are
passionate about that. I wish we did a better job supporting each other.
Best,
- Erika
*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle* <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:BrillLyle>
Secretary, Wikimedia NYC
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/NYC>
On Tue, May 17, 2016 at 9:08 AM, Michel Vuijlsteke <wikipedia(a)zog.org>
wrote:
Welcome to my exact experience on Dutch Wikipedia.
Banned for life for
'outing' a power user.
The 'outing' is in huge inverted commas -- (1) enter her on-wiki username
in any search engine and you get oodles of vanity page(s) with her full
name and (2) she'd done much worse than that to me.
I've been called names, articles have been deleted, I've been told by many
people that, sure, were it any other person they'd be banned, and sure,
when she refers people to [Leck mich im Arsch] it *might* be construed as
uncivil, but hey, she's doing good work on vandal patrol and deleting
articles, so...
Yup. It's very, very toxic at times. And nobody really cares.
On 17 May 2016 at 14:47, Pete Forsyth <peteforsyth(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Reaching out offlist. Anyone who knows Chris well
and has helpful input,
feel free to contact me offlist.
-Pete
[[User:Peteforsyth]]
On Tue, May 17, 2016 at 5:44 AM, Chris Sherlock <
chris.sherlock79(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
I've just been blocked forever. I've been bullied, and I'm having
suicidal
> thoughts.
>
> I don't know what to do now.
>
> Right now I'm reaching out to anyone who might listen. I've been
called
> obsessive, someone who attacks people,
I've not been listened to and
I've
> been lectured on policy by people who quote
three letter shortcuts at
me
without
reading the policy.
An admin just told me that I had submitted too many kilobytes which
violated some sort of policy. When I pointed out that half of the
kilobytes
> were references I was ignored. When I pointed out that the one
reverting
me
was deleting no contentious stuff I was told I
was being contentious.
When
I pointed out I had been told I'm not allowed
to use primary sources in
any
way and the policy was its ok but to use it with
care, and all I was
doing
was checking a company directorship, I was
ignored.
I wrote your [[exploding whale]] article. I invented your [citation
needed] tag. I started your admins noticeboard.
But I'm not well, and nobody on Wikipedia seems to be kind. You are all
so
busy power tripping that you forget there is a
real, live person on the
other side. A person who is wounded. I haven't always been this
depressed.
> Not anxious. I stupidly logged into my account yesterday, one that
nobody
> knew I used, and tried to edit the Salim
Mehajer article. I was
surprised
it
wasn't there, but I've never been so obstructed I all my life. It's
not
> even that there was a disagreement, it was like I wasn't worth
anything.
I
> spent hours of my time researching the article, trying to do a good
job.
But in an
instant the material was ripped away, and I was called
obsessed.
>
> That's not what I was called when I rewrote the [[USA PATRIOT Act]]
> article. People told me it was long, but they were encouraging. My hard
> work was appreciated.
>
> I've never attacked the subject of the article, Salim Mehajer. But
when
I
> was called obsessive, I guess something
broke inside me. I reached
badly
> and called the guy who called me obsessive a
twit. Then I wrote a
bitter
article
and posted it on my blog. You can read it here:
http://randomtechnicalstuff.blogspot.com.au/2016/05/dont-bite-newbies-why-w…
Then I stewed. I couldn't stop thinking about how I'd tried to get a
decent article sorted out again, but I just couldn't seem to get
traction.
>
> I originally had taken material from the [[City of Auburn]] article
that
> was about the individual. I should have
realised it was partisan, and
it
> was a bad judgement call. I write done more
material, but it was far
too
negative.
I guess o didn't see it that way at the time.
I recall I went to bed and the next day I was accused of writing an
attack
> article and an admin slapped on not one but two template telling me I
was
about to
be blocked. Then I discovered the article had been deleted.
Nobody
had notified me. I couldn't work out what had
happened. Then I realised
it
had been deleted.
So I tried again. This time I started from scratch. I started to edit
very
> carefully. I started with a paragraph stub which just very, very
briefly
> noted Mehajor is a deputy mayor and property
developer. I think I
wrote a
short
paragraph Bout his wedding which was very notable. It's in the
history.
Then it was put up for deletion again. In the A7 category. I'm rusty at
Wikipedia, sure, but what? A7? It was for notability. But, I thought,
how?
The man is highly significant! Not a day goes by
without the media
talking
of his exploits!
So I objected. The editor rounded on me. He's famous for being famous,
like a Kardashian! he said. But I said, he was a deputy mayor and he's
been
> in the Australian media extensively! It's not just his wedding (which
was
notorious) - it's his property deals, and his companies, and he got his
entire council sacked! And he is in court all the time and is under an
AFP
> investigation! That *is* notable!
>
> But, I was told, there's not enough In the article. I was referred to
> another acronym about notability. But I know about notability policy, I
> thought. It's about the subject, not the content of the article..,
> desperately I hunted through the policy git the section on this. I'd
read
> it before, years ago. If the article was
deleted before I got a chance
to
object,
I'd be called a troll, or worse. I'd be blocked for recreating
it.
> In the nick of time I found the section and objected, and I asked to
have
it put on
Articles For Deletion. And I pointed out I was literally
editing
the article when it was almost deleted - because
it didn't establish
enough
> context. But, I thought, how do you establish context of the article is
> deleted midway through editing it?
>
> The editor took off the CSD template. I breathed a sigh of relief. Then
> they stick on a {{notability}} template. This, I was informed, meant
that
the
article could be merged, redirected, or deleted if notability
couldn't
> be determined. But, I thought - I just established that! I didn't want
it
> to be deleted midway through editing, and
redirecting would have been
as
bad. And
merged and redirected to what? It was already redirected to
[[City
> of Auburn Council#History]], but that was clearly wrong. No, it was
going
> to be deleted. I objected, and eventually
removed the template, to
> strenuous objections from the one who put it on. I suggested it be put
up
for
deletion and offered to do it myself. But the editor seemed
reluctant.
So, I reasoned, well if they truly feel that way
they list it for
deletion.
> At least then we'll get consensus one way or another.
>
> So, now templates less but incomplete, I started to add material. I
> decided to start off with his early life. This was good, but every
time I
> tried to add more material I found I was
getting edit conflicts because
> that same editor appeared to have watchlisted the article. I sent the a
> message asking then to hold off editing. I also asked them not to
remove
> huge swathes of information.
>
> Then I got to the bit where a court case was referred to. To establish
> context, I quoted both the widely reported words said by the accused
and
> the defendant. I used a secondary source
that was very reliable - the
> Australian ABC News website. This was summarily removed. The edit
summary
> read BLP violation.
>
> Eh? I know what BLP is, but that can't be right. I asked why on the
talk
page.
"It's because of BLPCRIME" they said. "You can't do it". But,
I
said,
> I don't want to summarise their words, that could look worse for
Mehajer!
And I
need to explain the case fairly do the reader knows what it's
about... I was told to read the policy. Grumbling, I read it to refresh
my
memory. It read that non-public figures should
not have allegations put
on
> articles. Well, I thought, this does t apply here - Mehajer is a very
> public figure and this was reported widely.
>
> And on and on it went. Every time I edited the article I would be
edited
as
quickly. It was like I was being stalked. Eventually, however, the
exasperation of that editor was too much. He listed the article on
Requests
> For Comment. But, I thought, I remember RFC back in the day. We used to
> hash these things out on the talk page first! And normally there was
some
> sort of compromise - line the opposing party
would say "why not
summarise
it
thusly" and you'd look at it and go "well, OK, but I'd summarise it
like
this". And the partite would come up with
something reasonable. Not do
this
editor - it was no information on the case at
all, just that there had
been
> a case.
>
> So then things went very bad. He decided to ask at the Australisn
> Wikipedias Noticeboard. From there, a South Ausyrslusn editor turned
up,
took a
look at the section that detailed vehicle incidents and just
removed
it. Then on the talk page he panned the edits as
"obsessive" and
"trivial".
In fact, he was just getting started..,
"the compilation of all the companies he's a director of, many of which
are so non-notable the author has had to refer to business registration
records, is an atrocious case of original research and absolutely does
not
> belong in this article. These are such trivial details that no
journalist
has
bothered to compile them in any of the tens of thousands of stories
about him for a reason."
I was gob smacked. I had sourced every one if the companies to a
secondary
source. One of the sources was an article in The
Australian, a major
Aussie
> newspaper. It pointed to a PDF which detailed a list of companies
> associated with Mehajer.
>
> And at this point we end at the beginning. I rage quit, then I was
> messages by an editor from Perth, who taunted me, telling me I had
> relevance deprivation syndrome. I was already feeling fragile, but this
> egged me on I suppose. If I'd been feeling less fragile I just would
have
let it
go.
So I did something inexcusable. I told the editor who had been stalking
me
> what I thought of them. I swore at them and called them bad names. It
was
reverted.
I continued editing. It was hell or high water! I knew if I could just
ask
> them to explain there decisions I could get the article into shape. So
I
> asked again why non-controversial material
was removed. Nobody would
> answer. I put back material and wrote a long talk message. I was
reverted
> with a response that didn't answer why
it was a problem. I kept
tweeting
because
there was nothing else I could do. Even important material,
utterly
non-controversial, was removed.
Eventually, however, they started to suggest what the issues were. They
said it was fine to include his traffic offenses, but it had to be cut
down. But, I explained, it's actually only one sentence and I detailed
what
the offenses were otherwise it might give an
impression his offenses
were a
> lot worse than they were! I asked what they should be changed to. And,
I
> pointed out, you still haven't explained
why the other material is a
> violation of Biographies of Living People!
>
> There was no response. Instead, I was reverted. So I reverted again
> because no answer had been provided.
>
> Then I got a message. I was told that actually the admin hadn't read
the
> material but he'd noticed that the total
kilobytes of text had
ballooned.
But, I
said on my talk page - half of that size is in references!
Irrelevant, I was told. You aren't editing to consensus. If someone
removes
> material, under no circumstances must you ready it until you discuss
it.
>
> But the other editor is refusing to discuss it with me! Again I pointed
> out the bits that were being removed without being discussed. Tough I
was
> told.
>
> In sheer bloody minded frustration I reverted the admin. Then I posted
to
the
admins incident page pleading for someone to see reason. Then I got
yet
> another message telling me I had been reported for edit warring.
>
> I tried post, got in the first bit to appeal. But then I tried list
more,
> to plead my innocence and rotary to make
someone understand I ha dead
at
> the end if my tether. My wife came in and
startled me. I literally
jumped
> and yelled, severely startling her badly. I
felt dreadful.
>
> Then I raced out of the house, got in my car and parked in a quiet
spot.
I
posted to the only place I had left. A bitter
post, stating who I had
been
> and what I had contributed and what I had just been through.
>
> This wax reverted by the admin Nick-D, from Western Australia who
banned
> my rage quitted account (whose passwords
scrambled, so it's
inaccessible
anyway)
and had my mobile IP address blocked got a week, though I had
tried
> to explain I would be home later and it's best block my other IP
address
which is
my NBN IP. It was, I had said in the message, a relief.
But not only was this rolled back, but the user page was locked.
My despair and humiliation is total. So here I sit, contemplating the
mess
> my life is in and how it's not worth even the ability to edit
Wikipedia,
> Wikipedia the project I loved and I gave do
much if my time and date
to.
A
> project where I worked to gain consensus and wrote amazing article with
> others, and researched for and went to meet ups and borrow books from
the
> library to ensure the world got the best
possible information I could
> locate about a subject.
>
> I know I'm not well. I have fought this feeling for a decade. It's why
I
> left the Tbsdy_lives account when Brad
emailed me. At least then you
gave
me small
degree of dignity, and deleted my user pages.
There is no more dignity to be given me. I've used up my portion.
And I sit here in my car and contemplate suicide. My despair is total.
There is not a kind one amongst you. You have taken my right of appeal,
my
ability to protest and my dignity. You have let
others mock me, and I
have
> failed to contribute to Wikipedias great mission - one I feel so
keenly.
I failed. I'm not sure what I'm going to do next. I will drive, I don't
know where. I pray my family forgives me.
Chris
Ta bu shi da yu
Sent from my iPhone
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