Hello
I am with all of those who see this as a positive thing. But perhaps a bit
of gentle curation of their initial experience could be the "fix" that is
needed rather than just cutting any fledgeling editors off altogether. How
about the following ...
reader decides to edit
clicks on edit button
directed to registration
then to a step by step introduction to initial editing with links
community (in this case, Wikipedia Portuguese) to access initial
editing
resources, OR b) put in touch with Wikimedia Chapter or Usergroups (where
possible) to request a notification on the next editing/community event. If
they still want to edit after that, then all power to them ... but at least
we have supported their effort and not cut them off entirely or confused
them into wrong actions or trolling.
Of course, you will always get people who are trying to be inappropriate,
but that can be taken care of on an individual and not a national basis.
warmest
Isla
On 21 March 2016 at 06:10, James Alexander <jalexander(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
Aye, what Vito said.
For some context the WP0 team reached out to me when the partners started
flagging some of this as well. We've been considering a couple different
options which I think should be wider discussed. Part of that was also a
realization that we needed a way to actually tell if something was coming
from WP0 compared to a non-WP0 user and they implemented technical changes
with ops so that a header is passed through flagging that early this year
allowing for more targeted actions to be taken. Completely figuring out the
extent of the problem has also been though since it seems that even when
Wikipedia Zero is blocked the users most set at getting around restrictions
(which are, of course, the most dangerous in many ways) also use other
options such as Facebook's Internet Basics/FB0 which also apparently gives
free access to our sites.
Some of the options considered (not yet implemented though I'd be
interested in peoples thoughts on them):
- Edit filters (targeted specifically to WP0 or otherwise) flagging
abnormally large files when compared to the stated file type or files
coming in through WP0 in general.
- File upload blocks or other filtering (such as file sizes over X or
videos <https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T126696>) specifically on WP0
ranges.
- More technical measures to try and detect abnormal images or PDFs that
hold hidden files (apparently this is actually very difficult).
We've been talking with multiple groups within Engineering and given the
new information and options are going to continue to do so. I do think that
it is overall a "good" thing that people are trying to edit (originally all
we saw was the bad uploads and organized copyright violations which was
much less of a good thing...) but it's definitely true that we don't want
to overwhelm the current community in such a way that we not only lose
those new editors but old ones as well (or push them back so hard given the
necessity of protecting the wiki that they never come back). I think it
would be really good to think about ways to help deal with that.
James Alexander
Manager
Trust & Safety
Wikimedia Foundation
(415) 839-6885 x6716 @jamesofur
On Sun, Mar 20, 2016 at 11:06 AM, Vi to <vituzzu.wiki(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Anytime a new linguistic group joins Wiki* we
should expect a looooooong
September <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September> which will
sooner or later end. Meanwhile what might become *so* problematic (and
then
must be stopped asap) is the usage of Commons as
a file sharing platform.
There's a series of technical countermeasures (stopping truncated files,
setting requirements for upload of videos...) which don't imply blocking
editing from Zero.
Vito
2016-03-20 17:05 GMT+01:00 Lodewijk <lodewijk(a)effeietsanders.org>rg>:
In a way, it is great to hear that Wikipedia zero
is attracting new
editors! That is what I hoped for more than increasing readership.
The general question on how to stimulate positive edits while
discouraging
> negative contributions is the tricky part. What we always tell
outsiders
on
> why we can cope with vandalism or simply bad edits is that we made it
> easier to identify and revert it than to make them.
>
> Maybe a superfluous question, but can we still differentiate individual
> devices from each other somehow? I can imagine this is a tricky part if
> not...
>
> Besides the obvious downside, are the positive sides also visible? Do
we
> see more edits on Angola relayed topics? Do
you see more positive
active
> users from Angola?
>
> Lodewijk
>
> Op zondag 20 maart 2016 heeft Gerard Meijssen <
gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com
>
> het volgende geschreven:
>
> > Hoi,
> > Realistically. Wikipedia is very much an enabler.
> >
> > Your ease to consider "simply" disabling mobile edits or uploads I
find
>
appalling. People in countries like USA or UK are very fortunate.
Nobody
> would ever argue to disable their edits or
uploads. At the same time
as a
> movement we desperately need more and more
diverse involvement. While
you
> > may say what you want, it is unconscionable for us to do as you
suggest
> as
> > it is fully contrary to what we aim to achieve.
> >
> > What we are experiencing is a bump in the road. We have to deal with
it
> but
> > throwing the baby with the washing water? REALLY !!
> > Thanks,
> > GerardM
> >
> > On 19 March 2016 at 15:03, David Emrany <david.emrany(a)gmail.com
> > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Adele
> > >
> > > Can we have a clear picture of Wikimedia's ‘complicated’
relationship
> >
with net neutrality - 1year on from the Washington Post story [1]
> >
> > Can we also have specific figures on how much of WMF's traffic has
> > been lost / gained from key markets in Latin America and Asia after
> > regulators have blocked zeropaid schemes due to local concerns.
> >
> > WMF's "complicated" stance has also turned off many like-minded
> > support groups who stand for pure net neutrality - and not WMF's or
> > Facebook's ersatz versions [2]
> >
> > Lastly, if the primary aim of Wikipedia Zero is to gain readership,
> > why not simply disable all mobile edits / uploads from these
accounts.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2014/11/25/wikipedias-com…
https://blog.wikimedia.org/2014/08/01/wikipedia-zero-and-net-neutrality-pro…
> > >
> > > On 3/19/16, Adele Vrana <avrana(a)wikimedia.org <javascript:;>>
wrote:
> > > > Hi Teles,
> > > >
> > > > As the head of the Wikipedia Zero program, I would like to
respond
and
> > > provide more context to the important challenges you are bringing
up.
> > > >
> > > > Last year, the Foundation increased our security and privacy by
> > requiring
> > > > HTTPS to access all Wikimedia projects. That change has greatly
> > impacted
> > > > the Wikipedia Zero program, and most importantly has also allowed
> > editing
> > > > (and not only reading) and extended the scope of zero-rated
access
from
> > > just Wikipedia to all Wikimedia projects. However, our banners do
not
> > > reflect this additional
zero-rating, but still only appear on
> Wikipedia.
> > >
> > > In your message you highlight two main concerns. One would be the
> upload
> > of
> > > copyrighted materials and overall abuse on Commons. The other
concern
> > > > regards how the editing community should deal with an influx of
new
> > good
> > > > faith edits and potential editors in Portuguese, with particular
> > > challenge
> > > > of the extra work this causes for existing community members.
> > > >
> > > > Regarding Commons, we have experienced abuse from a few
subscribers
> of
> > a
> > > > Zero partner in Angola. Typically what happens is that the
pirates
>
upload
> > > copyrighted movies to Commons either directly or in a concealed
form
> > > (like
> > > > huge/split PDFs or JPEGs). Then they promote the links on
Facebook
> or a
> > > > similar public forum for others to download. When partners become
> aware
> > > of
> > > > this they have flagged it to us and we've, in turn, flagged it
to
> > > Community
> > > > Engagement who has worked with editors to try and make sure it's
> > removed.
> > > >
> > > > We agree that this is not an ideal way to handle this problem,
and
we
> > > would
> > > > prefer to catch it much earlier or simply prevent it outright
> (without
> > > > significant limits being placed on good faith editors). Last
fall,
we
> had
> > > internal discussions on finding technical solutions for this
problem.
> > > However, we discovered that we
could not widely identify traffic
from
> > > zero
> > > > rated partners, and that ability was a prerequisite to address
this
> > > issue.
> > > > As of December 2015, the Ops team was able to complete that work.
> > > >
> > > > With this task completed, our team, in coordination with
community
> > > > engagement and engineering is
working on finding the best
approach
to
> > > resolve this issue. Do you have
suggestions or guidance? We are
eager
> > to
> > > > examine multiple approaches and this is a great time to open the
> > > > discussion. As we evaluate different approaches, we can also
update
> you
> > > and
> > > > the list here.
> > > >
> > > > On the editing topic, the primary goal of Wikipedia Zero is to
> increase
> > > > readership. This is measured in potential reach (through
subscriber
> > > counts)
> > > > and pageviews within regions with Wikipedia Zero partnerships.
> There’s
> > > not
> > > > enough information to show that Zero can also increase
editorship,
but
> it
> > > is something we believe is furthered by expanding reading access.
So
> if
> > > > that is what is happening in Angola, we see that is a great
thing.
> >
>
> > > However, we understand that it’s challenging for our existing
editing
> > > community to handle a sudden
influx of new editors. This seems to
be
> a
> > > > crucial and important conversation for the movement at large to
> have. I
> > > > hope we can figure out a way to turn this moment in Angola into
an
> >
> opportunity to learn how to deal with new readers and editors.
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > Adele
> > >
> > > On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 4:50 PM, Gnangarra <gnangarra(a)gmail.com
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > >
> > >> some of the issue stems form the copyright laws of Angola, which
are
> > >> really
> > >> interesting to read -- read them in english --
> > >>
https://www.copyright-watch.org/files/Angola.pdf of course I
dont
> > > expect
> > > >> people to know their copyright laws in detail or to have read
them
but
> > >> they
> > >> do know the principles of it and what they can do
> > >>
> > >> some points of interest
> > >>
> > >> - Non protected works Article 9 section c -- news of the day
> > published
> > >> by the press or broadcast
> > >> - Chapter IV Uses lawful without Authorisation article 29
section
> > b -
> > > >> reproduction by photographic process or process analogous to
> > > >> photographic
> > > >> process by <snip> documentation centres <snip> or
teaching
> > > >> organisations
> > > >> ..... refers to minimum amount of copies necessary, but
wither
> way
> > > >> Wikipedia would fall into either of these definitions as
> permitted
> > to
> > > >> reproduce
> > > >> - article 30 - is the key here it enables translation into
> > Portuguese
> > > >> after 3 years without any real restrictions - hence why the
> > pt.wikis
> > > >> are
> > > >> having so much of an issue and by extension commons where
they
> >
>> encourage
> > >> uploading of media
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Wikipedia zero implementation needs to also consider the
implication
> > of
> > > >> local laws especially copyright on the projects where the laws
are
>
this
> > >> outdated and effectively enable copyright issues then WP Zero
could
> > > >> provide
> > > >> a read only option for IP's or a no upload option, with a
rights
> >
request
> > >> process on commons
> > >>
> > >> On 19 March 2016 at 00:45, Lucas Teles <teleswiki(a)gmail.com
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > Hi, everyone.
> > >> >
> > >> > It is being recently reported on Portuguese Wikipedia and
Commons
> > (at
> > > >> > least) the increasing ammount of improper editing coming
from
IP
> >> addresses
> >> > located in Angola. Some users believe that this may be related
with
> >> > Wikipedia Zero and a
partnership between WMF and a cellphone
company
> > [1]
> > >> > that allows reading and editing at free cost.
> > >> >
> > >> > One of the first reactions to that is a large range block that
was
> > just
> > >> set
> > >> > on Commons in order to prevent these edits [2], as they are
being
> done
> > >> in a
> > >> > way that volunteers can't handle.
> > >> >
> > >> > That seems to be some kind of "second wave" as the
first that
hit
> > > >> > Commons
> > > >> > [3] had been already reported months ago [4] and seemed to
be
> > > controled
> > > >> or
> > > >> > just paused for a while. On Portuguese Wikipedia, one thing
that
> > > seemss
> > > >> to
> > > >> > be clear is that edits are done in good faith. However, they
end
by
> > >> > being
> > >> > undone as they are incorrect for some reason, whether being
pages
> of
> > > >> files
> > > >> > about themselves or just test edits. One of the users
identified
> >
>> > actually
> > >> > confirm [5] that he is editing through Wikipedia Zero.
> > >> >
> > >> > Concerning that more partnerships may occur in future, I think
it
> is
> > > >> > time
> > > >> > for us to start talking about ways of dealing with that,
other
> than
> > > >> > blocking. Sadly, I don't have an answer to that problem,
but I
> tend
> > to
> > > >> > believe that some way of mass reaching these potential
users
> should
> > be
> > > >> made
> > > >> > out.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > The current process is that editors will be the ones to
notice
> that
> > > (as
> > > >> > I
> > > >> > am not aware of any kind of follow up by WMF on that) and
they
> will
> > > try
> > > >> to
> > > >> > solve their way, which may cause too many collateral
damage.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > I wonder if there is any kind of way to diminish the
problem,
by
using
> >> any
> >> > off-wiki strategy.
> >> >
> >> > Kind regards.
> >> >
> >> > Teles
> >> >
> >> > [1] -
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
>
http://www.telecompaper.com/news/movicel-offers-free-access-to-wikipedia--1…
> >> > [2] -
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
>
https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Steinsplitter&…
https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimedia_Forum&oldid=1283…
> >> > [5] -
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
>
https://pt.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Usu%C3%A1rio_Discuss%C3%A3o:Darw…
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > *Lucas Teles*
> >> >
> >> > *+55 (71) 98290 7553Steward at Wikimedia Foundation.
Administrator *
> > >> > *at Portuguese Wikipedia and Wikimedia Commons.*-
wikipedista.com
> > > >> > _______________________________________________
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> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> GN.
> > > >> President Wikimedia Australia
> > > >> WMAU:
http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> > > >> Photo Gallery:
http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
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> > > >
> > > > --
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> > > > *Strategic Partnerships*
> > > > Wikimedia Foundation
> > > > +1 (415) 839-6885 ext. 6773
> > > > avrana(a)wikimedia.org <javascript:;>
> > > >
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