Anthony, it does seem you've missed some of which
I wrote in this thread. I
have no problem with specific criticism where it is deserved, and I do well
remember that the Visual Editor, in its early incarnation, was not quite up
to the job.
What I do have a problem with is people fixating on some technical or
early-lifecycle issues, declaring the entire thing worthless, even
dangerous, and spreading that view around. This behaviour, I have seen time
and again, with the Media Viewer, with Wikidata.
It's bad because it's broken - let's come together and fix it.
It's bad because ... well, everyone says it's bad. And new. And Not Made
Here. THAT is a problem, and not a technological one.
On Tue, Jan 19, 2016 at 2:39 PM Anthony Cole <ahcoleecu(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Magnus, you've missed the point of the visual
editor revolt. A couple of
people here have tried to explain that to you, politely. And you're
persisting with your idée fixe.
There were two parts to the visual editor catastrophe, actually. The
product wasn't ready for anyone to use. Not veteran editors. Not newbies.
Newbies who used it were less likely to successfully complete an edit. It
was broken, and the WMF insisted we had to use it.
The second part of the problem was arrogance. Yes, a few editors were
unnecessarily rude about the product and the developers. But then most of
the developers and tech staff who dealt with the community arrogantly
characterised *anyone* who complained about the product as an ignorant,
selfish Ludite - and you're persisting with that characterisation now.
The WMF under Lila has learned the lessons from that, and they have
fostered a much healthier relationship between the developers and the
community. You clearly haven't learned all you might have.
In fact, reading the arrogant responses from you here and in the concurrent
thread titled "How to disseminate free knowledge," and from Denny in
earlier threads addressing criticism of WikiData, it seems to me there is
still a significant arrogance problem that needs addressing, at least over
at WikiData.
Some people may approach you arrogantly, maybe even insultingly, about an
innovation, and I suppose you might be justified in talking down to them or
ridiculing them (though I advise against it.). But if you can't distinguish
them from those who approach you with genuine concerns and well-founded
criticisms, then no matter how clever you think your technical solutions
are, you will soon find you're no more welcome here than those WMF staffers
who thought insulting well-meaning critics was a good career move.
Denny's contemptuous dismissal of valid criticisms of his project, and your
contemptuous dismissal of the valid criticisms of the early visual editor
and its launch are both very disappointing.
Anthony Cole
On Tue, Jan 19, 2016 at 7:24 AM, Magnus Manske <
magnusmanske(a)googlemail.com>
wrote:
The iPhone was a commercial success because it
let you do the basic
functions easily and intuitively, and looked shiny at the same time. We
do
not charge a price; our "win" comes by
people using our product. If we
can
present the product in such a way that more
people use it, it is a
success
for us.
I do stand by my example :-)
On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 10:37 PM Michael Peel <email(a)mikepeel.net>
wrote:
> On 18 Jan 2016, at 22:35, Magnus Manske <magnusmanske(a)googlemail.com
wrote:
>
> As one can be overly conservative, one can also be overly
enthusiastic. I
> would hope the Foundation by now understands
better how to handle new
> software releases. Apple here shows the way: Basic functionality, but
> working smoothly first.
But at a huge cost premium? I'm not sure that's a good example to make
here. :-/
Thanks,
Mike
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