Anthony,
I see in this discussion we're conflating two things which, in my view are entirely different (though they have common themes). I should have made this distinction clearer from the outset: 1. A general debrief of the factors that led to the current crisis. This is what I think you are discussing; and I agree, it's very important, and it would ideally be conducted with somebody other than WMF in the driver's seat. 2. A general practice of debriefing significant projects. I consider organizational learning to be the primary benefit of this (so that mistakes are repeated less often, and practices improve); so whether it attracts any non-staff's attention is not of central importance in my view. But it *is* very important that it include reflection from high in the org chart (which was the case with the Belfer Center debrief, but not with the Media Viewer debrief).
#2 is the one I had in mind for this particular thread, but #1 is very important too.
Thank you for the kind words about my participation in #1. I do think, generally, people with a good understanding of Wikimedia's history and values, but without recent organizational ties, should be included. Whether or not I'm right for the task, I'll leave aside for the moment. -Pete [[User:Peteforsyth]]
On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 11:55 PM, Anthony Cole ahcoleecu@gmail.com wrote:
Pete, I love this review committee idea. My concern is about who drives it. Provided it's driven by intelligent, skeptical volunteers (along the lines of the FDC), I'm very comfortable. If it's owned by WMF management, I wouldn't bother reading their reports.
If you and Andreas were to sign on, that would be a very good start.
On Wednesday, 24 February 2016, Pete Forsyth peteforsyth@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Anthony,
Thank you for sharing this. It's a very interesting, highly detailed exposition of the history of Flow, and its predecessor, LiquidThreads.
(And
some interesting points I hadn't been aware of, such as Hassar's efforts dating back to 2004 to improve talk pages.) At least on a quick read, it aligns well with what I know.
I want to reiterate, though, the significance of the organization itself publishing, and engaging with/incorporating feedback on, reports like
this.
Scott Martin's piece appears to have value to whoever happens to read it; but a post-mortem by the organization will tend to attract the input of
all
significant stakeholder groups, and will command the attention of those doing the work in the future.
What I think is most valuable is the *learning process*, not merely the *collection of factual/historical information*. The latter is valuable,
of
course; but the learning is the key to an organization getting better at what it does over time.
-Pete [[User:Peteforsyth]]
On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 5:43 PM, Anthony Cole <ahcoleecu@gmail.com javascript:;> wrote:
Wrong link. It's here.
http://wikipediocracy.com/2015/02/08/the-dream-that-died-erik-moller-and-the...
On Wednesday, 24 February 2016, Anthony Cole <ahcoleecu@gmail.com
javascript:;> wrote:
This time last year, Scott Martin wrote up a history on
Wikipediocracy
that seems to cover most of the milestones.
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2016-February/082313.html
On Monday, 22 February 2016, Pete Forsyth <peteforsyth@gmail.com
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','peteforsyth@gmail.com
javascript:;');>>
wrote:
Brandon and Sarah:
I'm going to resist the urge to delve into the specifics of Flow
here,
as
I'd really like to stay on the topic of whether post-mortems on
divisive
issues are valuable, and how they should be approached.
Do you agree that an annotated summary of what has gone well and
what
hasn't, in the case of discussion technology like Liquid Threads and
Flow,
might help us to have generative conversations on this topic? Or do
you
disagree? What kinds of approaches do you think might help the organization and the community learn the best lessons from past efforts, avoid repeating mistakes, and find ever more effective ways to engage with each
other?
-Pete [[User:Peteforsyth]]
On Sun, Feb 21, 2016 at 7:42 PM, SarahSV <sarahsv.wiki@gmail.com
wrote:
On Sun, Feb 21, 2016 at 8:19 PM, Pete Forsyth <
peteforsyth@gmail.com javascript:;>
wrote:
> > Is it possible to imagine an effort that would not be shot down,
but
> embraced? > > What would need to be different? > > These are the kinds of questions I wish the Wikimedia Foundation
would
get > better at asking and exploring. > > Lila is good at asking the right questions of the community,
which
is
why (so far as I can tell) editors like her. If you look at her meta
talk
page,
you can see her asking good questions about Flow and trying to
find
out
what editors need.
That was literally the first time we felt we were being listened
to.
There
was one point when Flow was introduced – and I have been trying to
find
this diff but can't – where there was something on the talk page
that
amounted to "if you agree with us that x and y, then you're
welcome
to
join
the discussion."
So from the start, it felt as though staffers had ruled out the
community
as people who might know something about what tools are needed to collaborate on an article (which is not the same as chatting).
People
who
had been doing something for years were not regarded as experts in
that
thing by the Foundation.
We would say "we need pages," and they would explain why we
didn't.
We
would say "we need archives," and they would explain why good
search
was a
better idea. We would say "there's too much white space," and they
would
explain that people like white space. And so on.
Sarah
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