I'd like to second Lodewijk's suggestion of something more like Wikicamp,
though I don't think that necessarily means it has be much smaller.
I wonder how the economics of something like the Wikimedia Armenia
experience would expand to a larger, more international participation.
Personally, it has always been my ambition to host a WikiWoodstock in an
upstate New York campground, but that's just me :)
Thanks,
Richard
(User:Pharos)
On Fri, Feb 19, 2016 at 12:54 PM, Lodewijk <lodewijk(a)effeietsanders.org>
wrote:
An experiment I'd be more than willing to think
about, is to have a 'real
wikimania' every two years, and a more 'light edition' the other year (with
less aimed attendance, less WMF participation, maybe less subsidised, a
cheaper location, more like a wikicamp).
But, to look at that in a proper way, we have to know a bit more details,
and that requires a good discussion, rather than a one-off survey.
Lodewijk
On Fri, Feb 19, 2016 at 6:48 PM, Gerard Meijssen <
gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Hoi,
Again, we have not "proven" in any way that it has to be cheap. When
cheap
comes at the prize of losing what is precious.
When we choose to ignore the cost of WMF travel of personnel, we
effectively cook the books because the need for WMF inclusion is high. It
is one of the aspects that makes Wikimania precious.
Much of the value of Wikimania is in meeting people from all over the
world. This is happily ignored in a quest for a cheap experience.
Thanks,
GerardM
On 19 February 2016 at 02:06, Samuel Klein <meta.sj(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Chris & Ellie: I don't think I would
include 'WMF Travel/Accomodation'
or
> general Wikimedia PR in the Wikimania overhead.
> * Staff have a budget for travel to events of all kinds; the Board
has
a
> budget for its meetings wherever they are held; and similarly the few
> committees that meet in person have a budget for those meetings.
> * The fact that these things happen to take place at Wikimania is, if
> anything, a slight cost savings: some of the logistics of scheduling
and
finding
venues can be shared, it allows coordinating press events, &c.
Lodewijk, I agree: we should be able to find ways to limit direct
expenses,
and increase sponsorships. We could also
increase the number of people
who
benefit from scholarships, or are otherwise able
to attend.
Focusing on direct expenses from recent Wikimanias:
* 2014 budget: $250K revenue + a $150K WMF grant. Actual: $280K
revenue,
needed $320K from WMF to cover direct expenses
* 2015 budget: $150K revenue + a $300K WMF grant. Actual: $100K
revenue,
> needed $380K from WMF to cover direct expenses
> * 2016 budget: $290K? revenue + a $250K WMF grant.
>
> Itzik, what were the equivalent budgets for Haifa? From the
post-mortem
on
> Meta it looks like a $280K budget, and a $100K WMF grant. This included
> paying for the event coordinator, which is now budgeted separately.
That
was for
the finest event one could hope for.
Lodewijk writes:
> 'wikimania direct' is quite expensive, to be honest, and much more
than I
> > would have expected. However, it does include catering, which is
always
> > an expensive chunk...
>
> Registration fees should at least cover the marginal cost of the event:
> catering & materials per person.
>
>
> > looking at these figures, I can agree that it should be possible to
do
it
for
less, I'm less certain though whether the
proposed splitting up would
significantly reduce the total costs for everything that is included
here.
The greater part of money spent on attending Wikimania is the
out-of-pocket
> cost of flights and hotels. The cost of this for non-local attendees
is
> 10-50x the cost of registration. Running
many simultaneous local
events
has a
greater total budget, if you look only at the budgets of the
organizers; but a much lower cost per person. There are many more
options
for free venues and low-cost lodging when
you're not scrambling to fit
1000
people in a small region of a city. And a
smaller fraction of money
spent
goes towards jet fuel.
For this reason, the same pool of scholarship funds would go farther.
Finally, I don't think we should oversell the current Wikimania as a
universal connector. I too want there to be a community thing that
builds
> interpersonal connections and is accessible to every community member
at
low cost.
But that thing cannot be a $2,000-net-cost week-long
conference. Many people could never attend such an event, even if it
were
> free. It is a long time commitment, and is inevitably mono or
bilingual.
>
> Sam
> (who loves the current Wikimanias, and thinks they should continue! but
> doesn't think they are the pinnacle of what movement-gatherings could
be)
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 18, 2016 at 5:52 PM, Sam Klein <sjklein(a)hcs.harvard.edu>
> wrote:
>
> > That's most helpful, thank you both.
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 5:14 PM, Pharos <
pharosofalexandria(a)gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Thanks, Ellie and Chris, this historical experience should be very
> helpful
> >> for future discussions!
> >>
> >> Best,
> >> Pharos
> >>
> >> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 5:06 PM, Chris Schilling <
> >> cschilling(a)wikimedia.org>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Hey folks,
> >> >
> >> > Ellie has put together a summarized budget including revenue and
> >> expenses
> >> > from Wikimania 2014 in London[1] and Wikimania 2015[2], which
I've
> gone
> >> > ahead and posted to the summary pages of these conferences on
meta.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks,
> >> >
> >> > Chris
> >> >
> >> > [1] <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2014>
> >> > [2] <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2015>
> >> >
> >> > On Wed, Feb 10, 2016 at 1:15 PM, Samuel Klein
<meta.sj(a)gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Itzik writes:
> >> > >
> >> > > > If we want to talk about the cost of Wikimania it will be
great
if
> >> the
> >> > > WMF and the local team will share the costs.
> >> > > >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2014/Budget
> >> > > >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2015/Budget
> >> > > > Maybe I missed something, but it's strange that such
discussion
>>
takes
>> > > place without a real budget breakdown.
>> > > > To summarize 2 huge event to "1$ million USD" does not
make
sense.
>> > >
>> > > Agreed 1million%. It would be important to see a rough cost
>> breakdown, &
>> > > compare that to the best-budgeted Wikimanias.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Wed, Feb 10, 2016 at 9:52 AM, Tomasz Ganicz <
polimerek(a)gmail.com
> >
> >> > > wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > > 2016-02-10 6:06 GMT+01:00 Samuel Klein
<meta.sj(a)gmail.com>om>:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > > FUDCons
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Also it is hard to compare Wikimanias with FUDCons as it is
> >> > > > a) much smaller (usually bo more than 200 attendees)
> >> > > > b) divided by regions - for example in 2015 there were 3
FUDCons
>>
> > > (Argentina, India, Spain) and 2 Flocks (NY and Kraków) - so
they
> >> are
> >> > > > rather like our Iberecop or CEE meetings than the global
> >> conferences.
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Thanks. Similar to regional events perhaps, not Wikimania.
Still
> worth
> > > comparing budgets perhaps, if available.
> > >
> > > But I was wondering about the trend over time: whether extensive
> funding
> > > during the RedHat days made the events less useful, in the years
after
>> > that
>> > > funding was reduced.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > > And also Fedora developers have many potential sources of
external
> >> > > funding
> >> > > > - mainly from IT companies which uses free software and want
to
> >> apply
> >> > for
> >> > > > their specific needs and for whom they quite often work.
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> > > True. But attendees to GLAM or education conferences also tend
to
>>
have
>> > > many potential sources of funding - mainly from archives or
>> educational
>> > or
>> > > technical companies who curate knowledge or develop education
tools.
> And
> > we
> > > have IT industry partners who are similarly willing to support
> > Wikimanias.
> > > Not entirely dissimilar.
> > >
> > >
> > > > But anyway, Fedora offers scholarships for attendees, see:
> > > >
> > >
> > > Yes, wiki conferences should as well - that part of conference
> funding is
> > > important. Even early Wikimanias with almost no WMF support had
> > > significant scholarship pools.
> > >
> > > S
> > > _______________________________________________
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> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Chris "Jethro" Schilling
> > I JethroBT (WMF) <
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:I_JethroBT_(WMF)
>> >
>> > Community Organizer, Wikimedia Foundation
>> > <https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Home>
>> > _______________________________________________
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4266
--
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4266
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