Re: [Wikimedia-l] Can we see the Knight grant application and grant offer?

15 Feb 2016


      Hoi,
The notion that WMF should out google Google is stupid, certainly at that
kind of money. Search in the Wikimedia Foundation is much better but it is
still easy for Magnus (for some time now) to improve the search results
considerably.
The notion that search should not be strategic is laughable. Jane said that
she uses Google to search results in our project because it does a better
job. She searches in English !! Now consider searching in Tamil it finds a
lot more than only results in Tamil. Then apply this to our aim; provide
the sum of all knowledge.
Yes Siko left. It does however not follow that this has to do with grant of
the Knight foundation. Yes she is outspoken in what she says but it does
not follow that everything good is suspect. When James Heilman says that he
has an issue with the focus on search, that is different. It does still not
follow that we do a good job on search or that the additional effort as
described in the Knight grant is not an important persuit.
Thanks,
      GerardM
Thanks,
      GerardM
On 15 February 2016 at 17:57, Pete Forsyth peteforsyth@gmail.com wrote:
...
Lila,
The confusion, as you will surely agree, is understandable given the
scattershot and often contradictory information provided by WMF to
differing audiences. Above all, I hope the next volley of communication
will address the central contradictions between what you and Jimmy Wales
publicly stated prior to the publication of the grant application, and the
words in the application itself.
I will quote these below, but first to underscore the importance: when Siko
questioned the integrity of the organization, these are the apparent
willful lies that came to mind for me.
-Pete
[[User:Peteforsyth]]
Quotes:
"To make this very clear: no one in top positions has proposed or is
proposing that WMF should get into the general "searching" or to try to "be
google". It's an interesting hypothetical which has not been part of any
serious strategy proposal, nor even discussed at the board level, nor
proposed to the board by staff, nor a part of any grant, etc. It's a total
lie." -J. Wales, Feb. 1
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Jimbo_Wales&diff=pr...
"Let’s all treat each other withcivility
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:Civility and etiquette
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:Etiquette, and see if we can
collaborate
to build a consensus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:Consensus on the
WMF’s project direction to help readers discover the high quality content
and knowledge our editors are creating." - L. Tretikov, Feb. 1
https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:LilaTretikov_(WMF)&am...
"Knowledge Engine By Wikipedia is a federated knowledge engine that will
give users the most reliable and most trustworthy public information
channel on the web, applying fundamentals of transparent Wiki-based systems
to surfacing the most relevant and important information." Grant
application, August 2015
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2016-02-10/In_foc...
On Feb 15, 2016 2:35 AM, "Lila Tretikov" lila@wikimedia.org wrote:
...
Hi Gnangarra,
Thank you for forwarding, the authors of the article seem to be confused
about the nature of the project. Our Comms team is working to clarify
this.
...
Please expect to see something from us in next few days.
Lila
On Sun, Feb 14, 2016 at 8:51 PM, Gnangarra gnangarra@gmail.com wrote:
...
FYI making main stream media
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-15/wikimedia-foundation-aims-to-take-o...
...
...
On 14 February 2016 at 00:49, Anthony Cole ahcoleecu@gmail.com
wrote:
...
...
...
Anne, we're talking about almost the same thing, but not exactly. I
say
...
...
...
"advised" you say "consulted". "Consulted" implies soliciting or
expecting
...
some kind of response or engagement - probably
approval/disapproval/critique/input. "Advised" means they got the
memo. I
...
...
think "advised" is enough, and if the board wants more engagement,
they
...
...
can
...
initiate it - presuming the notification is clear and comprehensive,
of
...
...
...
course.
Anthony Cole
On Sat, Feb 13, 2016 at 10:37 AM, Risker risker.wp@gmail.com
wrote:
...
...
...
...
Well, I'm not sure about that, Anthony.  By "consulted", I would
mean
...
...
...
...
something to the effect of "We're looking at applying to XX for a
grant
...
...
of
...
$YYY to do ZZZ" and asking the Board if they would be likely to
agree
...
...
to
...
...
accept such a grant if the application is successful.  The grant
application, evaluation and approval process is costly in both time
and
...
...
...
resources, and for both the applicant and the grantmaker.  Being
informed
...
...
that a grant has been approved sounds more like a fait accompli
situation
...
...
for the Board - they look petty and ungrateful if they say no, even
if
...
...
they
...
don't think it was a reasonable grant application.  In this case,
we're
...
...
...
only dealing with $250,000.  What if this was $1 million?  $10
million?
...
...
...
I think it is healthier for everyone if the Board is properly
consulted
...
...
...
before the application is submitted.  (And again, I note that we
don't
...
...
know
...
how much was actually requested in this case, only what was
granted.)
...
...
...
...
Risker/Anne
On 12 February 2016 at 21:23, Anthony Cole ahcoleecu@gmail.com
wrote:
...
...
...
Anne, regarding:
"Since the Board must approve acceptance of any donations over
$100,000
...
...
...
USD, it seems to be obvious that they should be consulted and
possibly
...
...
...
should actively approve any grant applications where the dollar
value
...
...
...
...
sought is higher than that amount."
I'm not sure that the board should be *consulted* ahead of such
applications' or should prior-approve all such applications. That
seems a
...
...
bit like micromanagement. But it makes sense to me for the board
to
...
...
be
...
...
...
*advised
*of such applications and when they're being actively
contemplated
...
or
...
...
...
...
prepared.
Anthony Cole
On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 9:11 PM, Risker risker.wp@gmail.com
wrote:
...
...
...
...
> I'm sorry to hear that you feel this way, Gerard. I personally
would
...
...
like
...
> to feel more assured that the WMF is looking into the longer
future
...
...
and
...
...
> actively plannning for the day that donations no longer
support a
...
...
...
large
...
...
> staff doing lots of things.
>
> I am concerned today that the team specifically tasked to work
closely
...
...
with
> so many elements of the community has lost 7% of its staff, and
30%
...
...
of
...
...
its
> leaders, in a single week. This should be a concern in any
organization.
...
>
> With respect to the Knight grant - I know that many times grant
> applications are made for considerably more than is given, and
I
...
am
...
...
...
...
> interested to know how much the WMF requested in the first
place.
...
...
I
...
...
...
would
> also like to know whether or not the Board was formally advised
of
...
...
the
...
...
> request before it was submitted.  Since the Board must approve
acceptance
...
> of any donations over $100,000 USD, it seems to be obvious that
they
...
...
...
should
> be consulted and possibly should actively approve any grant
applications
...
> where the dollar value sought is higher than that amount.  I
don't
...
...
...
...
believe
> the current policies require advance approval or even advance
notification,
> though.
>
> Risker/Anne
>
> On 12 February 2016 at 03:54, Gerard Meijssen <
gerard.meijssen@gmail.com
...
>
> wrote:
>
> > Hoi,
> > I am not complaining. I point out that all this huha does not
get
...
...
us
...
...
> > anywhere. I am not afraid to give an opinion and I am not
afraid
...
to
...
...
be
...
a
> > contrarian when I think it makes sense. Yes, things happened
that
...
...
...
were
...
> not
> > beautiful. They are not what upset me. What upsets me is that
people
...
...
like
> > Siko and Anna are leaving. Because they are part of "my"
Wikimedia
...
...
...
> > Foundation. What upsets me is that I routinely use Magnus's
tool
...
...
and
...
...
> > process hundreds of thousands of records and am to understand
that
...
...
...
> official
> > query is stunted and does not allow for this "because it was
not
...
in
...
...
the
...
> > design" and it is then pointed out that it takes money to
solve
...
...
...
...
this...
...
> >
> > My point is that baying for blood is not what helps us
forward.
...
...
...
What
...
I
...
do
> > know is that when sheer negativity is not coupled with an
ability
...
...
to
...
...
stop
> > and move forward, we will get in a downward spiral. I fault
Pine
...
...
for
...
...
not
> > being able to stop. What I wish for is for people like Anna
and
...
...
...
Siko
...
...
and
> > money for our environment and not for an endowment.
> > Thanks,
> >       GerardM
> >
> > On 12 February 2016 at 09:35, Michel Vuijlsteke <
wikipedia@zog.org
...
...
...
> wrote:
> >
> > > Gerard,
> > >
> > > I was waiting for this mail. For me personally, your
complaining
...
is
...
...
> > > achieving exactly the opposite of what you think.
> > >
> > > It sounds as if you'd much rather prefer to stick your head
in
...
...
the
...
...
sand
> > and
> > > hope things will blow over. "Move along, nothing to see
here
...
--
...
...
oh
...
...
> look!
> > > something positive over there!" is not going to solve
anything.
...
...
...
...
> > >
> > > Michel
> > >
> > > On 12 February 2016 at 09:24, Gerard Meijssen <
> gerard.meijssen@gmail.com
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hoi,
> > > > Pine as you are talking about "self inflicting wounds" I
take
...
...
it
...
...
you
> > are
> > > > not talking in your personal capacity. When is it enough
for
...
...
you?
...
...
> When
> > > are
> > > > you going to talk about positive things, things that will
move
...
us
...
...
> > > forward.
> > > > Why ask for blood and more blood? What is it that you
hope
...
to
...
...
...
...
> achieve?
> > > >
> > > > Who do you represent in this unending litany of
negativity
...
...
and
...
...
what
...
> > have
> > > > you achieved in this way? When Lila was engaged in her
role,
...
...
she
...
...
was
> to
> > > > direct in a different direction and she is doing that.
You
...
...
may
...
...
not
...
> like
> > > it
> > > > and that is ok.
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >        GerardM
> > > >
> > > > On 12 February 2016 at 08:43, Pine W <
wiki.pine@gmail.com>
...
...
...
...
wrote:
...
> > > >
> > > > > Dariusz, thanks for continuing to engage here. Besides
the
...
...
good
...
...
> > > questions
> > > > > that others have asked, I'll add a few:
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. If the Knowledge Engine is such an important
project,
...
...
why
...
is
...
...
it
> > not
> > > > > mentioned in
> > > > >
> > >
>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Annual_Plan/2015-16
...
...
...
...
...
> > > > ?
> > > > >
> > > > > 2. I realize that as a percentage of the WMF budget,
$250k
...
...
is a
...
...
> > > > relatively
> > > > > small number. As others have said, this is not a reason
for
...
...
...
...
opacity
> > > about
> > > > > it, nor a reason for not having a conversation with the
community
...
> > about
> > > > > something so strategically important as a decision to
explore
...
...
the
...
> > > > question
> > > > > of "Would users go to Wikipedia if it were an open
channel
...
...
...
beyond
...
> an
> > > > > encyclopedia?" It's one thing to have a blue-sky
exercise
...
...
...
...
...
thinking
> > > about
> > > > > possibilities, and another thing to take a $250k step
in
...
...
that
...
...
...
> > > direction,
> > > > > especially without consulting the community.
> > > > >
> > > > > 3. I am getting tired about seeing bad news in general
about
...
...
WMF
...
> > > > > governance, planning, and turnover. I am curious how
you
...
...
plan
...
...
to
...
> > > address
> > > > > those issues. Like you, I would rather that we be
talking
...
...
...
about
...
...
our
> > > > > movement plans for the next 10 years. However, it's
difficult
...
...
to
...
> have
> > > > those
> > > > > conversations when WMF is making so many self-inflicted
wounds.
...
...
The
> > > > recent
> > > > > round of resignations is of respectable people from the
WMF
...
...
...
staff
...
> is
> > > > making
> > > > > the situation that much more concerning and that much
more
...
...
...
...
> difficult
> > to
> > > > > recover from. It seems to me that WMF leadership has
lost
...
...
...
...
control
...
> of
> > > this
> > > > > situation, and I'd like to hear what the recovery plan
is.
...
...
...
...
> > Personally,
> > > I
> > > > > feel that we need leadership that can build good
relationships
...
...
with
> > the
> > > > > staff and community, is transparent by default, and is
capable
...
of
...
> > > > restoring
> > > > > the credibility of the organization's planning,
execution,
...
...
and
...
...
> > > goodwill.
> > > > I
> > > > > think that we may need new leadership to make that
happen.
...
I
...
am
...
...
> > > > interested
> > > > > to hear your thoughts.
> > > > >
> > > > > Pine
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 7:32 PM, Dariusz Jemielniak <
> > darekj@alk.edu.pl
> > > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > 11.02.2016 10:23 PM "SarahSV" <
sarahsv.wiki@gmail.com>
...
...
...
...
...
> napisał(a):
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > Hi 
> > > > > > > Dariusz,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > T
> > > > > > > he grant application doesn't restrict the search
engine
...
...
to
...
...
> > > Wikimedia
> > > > > > projects. It says that the "Knowledge Engine by
Wikipedia
...
...
[is
...
...
a]
> > > system
> > > > > for
> > > > > > discovering reliable and trustworthy public
information
...
...
on
...
...
the
...
> > > > Internet.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My understanding is that the top range could
potentially
...
be
...
...
all
...
> > > > > open/public
> > > > > > resources, but this is the far stretched total goal,
and
...
...
...
still
...
> not
> > a
> > > > > > general search engine of all content including
commercial
...
...
...
one.
...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And a rrasonable realistic outcome can be just
improving
...
...
our
...
...
> > searches
> > > > > > across projects.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I can't comment on the initial ideas or goals, as I
was
...
...
not
...
...
on
...
> the
> > > > Board
> > > > > > before August 2015, but this is what I understand we
build
...
...
now.
...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > .
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The document says the "Search Engine by Wikipedia"
budget
...
...
for
...
> > > > 2015–2016
> > > > > > ($2.4 million) was approved by the board. Can you
point
...
us
...
...
to
...
> > which
> > > > > board
> > > > > > meeting approved it and what was discussed there?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I dont recall this specifically, and I'm going to
elude
...
...
...
this
...
...
> > question
> > > > by
> > > > > > going to sleep (and hoping someone better informed
may
...
...
...
pick).
...
...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Good night!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dj
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
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--
GN.
President Wikimedia Australia
WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Can we see the Knight grant application and grant offer?