First day back from vacation, I'm drafting response as we speak, just
haven't sanity-checked enough to hit send yet :) Will soon!
On Mon, Jan 5, 2015 at 5:35 PM, Risker <risker.wp(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Bumping....I do not see any response on this mailing
list from the
Grantmaking team, and I can't actually find very much about this entire
plan on the Grants portal at Meta (which may say more about the grants
portal than about the dissemination of the plant).
However, since this is something that has the potential to affect a lot of
Wikimedians (individuals, chapters, and other affiliated groups)...as well
as women (apparently)... it would be really nice to see what is going on.
Some people have mentioned that they received an email. Perhaps it could
be forwarded to this mailing list?
Risker/Anne
On 3 January 2015 at 13:35, Lila Tretikov <lila(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
For everyone here: I've asked our Grantmaking
team to comment and clarify
the details of this plan.
On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 9:32 AM, Lodewijk <lodewijk(a)effeietsanders.org>
wrote:
Answering to Teemu and Chris:
I do think that the for Wiki Loves Monuments and Wiki Loves Art it is
safe
to claim that if we organize it the way we would
always do, it would
still
> tip the gender balance in our community a little more to the female
side.
> However, I disagree that this should be a
main consideration, because I
> think that would be true for so many outreach projects. Focusing on
that
would be
a pity and a distraction imho. Also, for most participants we
don't know the gender, and we don't want to know the gender (because
asking
> for it alone can scare people away) - except for a sample of them, who
> happen to answer the survey afterwards. All data on that is quite
shaky.
>
> If necessary, I could easily make a case why WLM is a wonderful
gendergap
project -
the point is that I don't want volunteers to waste their time
on
making such cases, but rather let them be
innovative, come up with new
ideas instead of rebranding existing ideas on something like the
gendergap.
> My problems are more fundamental than 'I can't get money for my
specific
> project'.
>
> So Chris: yes, these people do a lot for reducing the gender gap in our
> projects. Also, Wikimedia organizers tend to hop between projects -
their
next
might be more focused on a topic that is popular with women, if
their
> current idea isn't yet. Drawing them into a topic in a positive way
(what
we do is
cool! Join us!) tends to be more successful than telling them
they
> are not allowed to do other stuff (we won't fund you at all unless you
do
> this specific theme).
>
> Prioritisation sounds great, but that only works that way if you have
one
> clearly defined pool of resources, that you
can actually control. What
do
you think
is the major bottle neck in organizing activities in the
Wikimedia movement? In my experience, that is not money, or even WMF
staff
> capacity (even though it is a limiting factor sometimes), but the
primary
bottle
neck is volunteer organizers (or editors). And volunteer time is
not
a resource you can easily 'control'. If
you want to influence it, the
most
effective way is by persuading the volunteers why
another angle is more
interesting, more fun, more effective.
Best,
Lodewijk
On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 6:11 PM, Chris Keating <
chriskeatingwiki(a)gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Like Bence, I would be interested to see how this kind of experiment
in
> WMF
> > grantmaking works out. And also like him I would be a little
surprised
if
> > something like this is implemented with no notice period.
> >
> > A couple of responses to Lodewijk's post;
> >
> >
> > > with people
> > > confirming my fear that this will likely undermine the community
> support
> > > (or at least support by the 'organizing community') for
> gendergap-related
> > > projects in general - be it out of frustration, compensation or
> jealousy.
> >
> >
> > Out of interest, were any of these people doing anything at all to
> support
> > the reduction of the gender gap in the first place? ;)
> >
> >
> >
> > > I
> > > called it a 'negative campaign' in my emails because the focus is
not
>
about
> > actively boosting one type of requests (which is the claim), but
rather
> > about making it harder to do something
unrelated to it in the hope
that
> > > people instead will choose for the easy way, and organize a
gendergap
> >
related event.
> >
>
> Equally, if you have limited resources, prioritising one thing means
> reducing attention to something else. So saying "we shouldn't work on
the
> gender gap if anything else gets less
atention as a result" is
logically
> > equivalent to saying "We shouldn't work on the gender gap".
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Chris
> > _______________________________________________
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