Well I may live in a fantasy world, but that is entirely beside the point. When I say these things will be discovered, that's exactly what you are saying happened years ago. These things will always be discovered, because they are unhidable. In your example the Uzbek Wikipedians have learned to stay off certain pages in order to coexist with Uzbek authorities. Similar coping strategies exist on other projects. It doesn't mean the entire Uzbek encyclopedia is untrustworthy or that the wiki model is at fault. The trail of tears is in the talk pages. I don't see anything wrong with making such concessions, since after discovery it becomes public record and everyone knows it anyway. What I don't understand is what you are trying to say. If you are proposing something, just come out and propose it instead of complaining about what goes on in certain projects and jumping from one scare tactic to another.
On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 9:06 PM, Andreas Kolbe jayen466@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 5:39 PM, Jane Darnell jane023@gmail.com wrote:
Granted, you could get past the 10,000 article startup requirement somehow and then start creating lots of POV articles, but once you do this you will soon be discovered. There is just no way to hide it.
Jane, you're living in a fantasy world. We already have Wikipedias with these POV articles. They've been "discovered" long ago, and it makes zero difference.
See e.g. the hagiography of the Uzbek President in the Uzbek Wikipedia[1] (him of the boiled dissidents). It hails him as the best thing since sliced bread.
Then see what Human Rights organisations have to say about his regime[2], or compare the English Wikipedia article.[3]
That train left the station a long time ago. The wiki model does *not* work in these contexts.
[1]
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=uz&tl=en&u=https... [2] https://www.hrw.org/europe/central-asia/uzbekistan [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_Karimov#Human_rights_and_press_freedom
On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 3:18 PM, Andreas Kolbe jayen466@gmail.com
wrote:
On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 10:44 AM, Lilburne <
lilburne@tygers-of-wrath.net
wrote:
On 28/12/2015 18:00, Jane Darnell wrote:
All I said is that the wiki way works, that's all. You can't hide it
when
someone tries to take over a project, and that is the reason we
shouldn't
try to anticipate that with convoluted strategies. "Assume Good
Faith"
will always win out over any strange misguided takeover strategy, which
is
why
governments that intend to do such things choose nowadays to just
block
wikimedia altogether. It is not our wake-up call to take, but that
of
the
Kazakh people.
Facebook showed the other year that it could manipulate people by
what
it
showed them in their feeds.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/facebook/10932534/Facebook-conducted-s...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-28051930
They didn't do this for fun, they did it to show their clients (advertisers, governments) that they could manipulate millions of
people.
You only need a small push in one direction or another to influence a
large
population. Doesn't matter if the push is to buy a particular soap,
vote
one way or another, or how you see a particular minority, or issue.
http://www.networkworld.com/article/2450825/big-data-business-intelligence/f...
Do it to a naively trusted source and you have a triple word score jackpot^H^H^Hboot.
I thought Epstein's and Robertson's paper, "The search engine
manipulation
effect (SEME) and its possible impact on the outcomes of elections",
was
very interesting as well:
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/08/how-google-could-rig-the-2016...
http://www.pnas.org/content/112/33/E4512.abstract
On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 7:43 PM, Jane Darnell jane023@gmail.com
wrote:
Well the chances of me being firebombed while on vacation in the
states
are
probably higher than me being firebombed for editing Wikipedia, but
that
still doesn't mean we need to worry about changing the wiki model. I
guess
I have lost the thread of your point entirely now.
To be honest, I don't think you had ever gotten hold of it in the first place. To me, you seem to live in a very sheltered and naive world.
If we have reports of Wikipedians being tortured in Azerbaijan (and
there
seems to have been some truth to these reports, as the sysop named in
them
was globally blocked by the WMF a short while later[1]), you should be
able
to understand that it is not quite as easy to live the wiki way there
as
it
is in your country, and that some of the assumptions you have formed
based
on your own experiences of the wiki model may not hold in other
locales.
[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Irada&diff=12421543&am...
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe