On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 12:02 PM, Megan Hernandez mhernandez@wikimedia.org wrote:
Below is a message that Andrea Zanni, President of Wikimedia Italia, and I have written together.
Hi everyone,
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and feedback. We would like to fill you in on the background work and conversations between Wikimedia Italia and WMF.
There was a scheduling problem to solve between two very important campaigns for the movement. Wiki Loves Monuments is a major contribution campaign and annual effort. Fundraising campaigns fund the movement and the team has a difficult goal this year with quarterly targets to meet. Direct communication was needed to work through the issue.
WMIT and WMF have been talking through the situation and many possible solutions over the past few weeks. Through very honest and respectful phone and email conversations, we were able to reach a mutual understanding of the issue and decided to move the fundraising campaign after Wiki Loves Monuments. We reached this agreement over the weekend (actually several hours before the RfC was posted online), but an immediate reply was not sent because we wanted to coordinate an update to the list. Weekend coordination is tricky, which is why this email is being sent on Monday.
Sorry to be a pain about this, but I'm puzzled.
Andrea wrote here on this list, four hours and fifteen minutes after the RfC started,
"I just received the news, and I'm glad to share it with you all".
Unless "just" meant something like "five hours" ago, Andrea at least only seems to have learned of this agreement *after* the RfC launched.
Andreas
On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 9:20 PM, Andrea Zanni zanni.andrea84@gmail.com wrote:
Hello everybody. I'm happy to announce that the Wikimedia Foundation has decided not to run the Fundraising banner in Italy during September.
In the last week, the Fundraising Team and Wikimedia Italia's board worked hard together to find a common solution. In these very last days, we continued a very honest and direct conversation. I just received the news, and I'm glad to share it with you all.
Postponing the Italian fundraising campaign means for the first time in at least 4 years, the fundraising team will not be meeting a target. The team will pick up extra work in October to make up for work missed in September. It's not possible to do two months of work in one month, so there will need to be adjustments later throughout the year to make up for missing the September target.
Wikimedia Italia and the WMF fundraising team have collaborated in the past on several projects (chapter banner and email campaigns as well as fundraising campaigns). We are currently working together on ways to get more contributors to WLM in Italy this year and on the upcoming fundraiser. We’ll work on communication and will share mutual expertise. We look forward to continuing to grow the relationship and working more closely going forward.
It’s clear we need a better process to coordinate campaigns. We are a vast and complex movement, so communication is key. Together with the Community Engagement team, we are thinking of ways to improve and we appreciate your effort toward this improvement. Reasonable and respectful communication is how we were able to reach a solution, we need to build from this going forward.
Thank you to everyone who provided constructive ideas to help solve the problem. Best of luck to all the WLM campaigns that launch tomorrow! Thank you for all your work on WLM, we’re all looking forward to seeing the new contributions this year.
Megan Hernandez and Andrea Zanni
On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 12:47 PM, Peter Southwood < peter.southwood@telkomsa.net> wrote:
Interesting that this happens just after the RFC is started. Maybe no relevance... Cheers, P
-----Original Message----- From: wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto: wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Andrea Zanni Sent: Sunday, 30 August 2015 10:21 PM To: Wikimedia Mailing List; Wiki Loves Monuments Photograph Competition Cc: Wikimedia Chapters general discussions Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wiki Loves Monuments] Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising
Hello everybody. I'm happy to announce that the Wikimedia Foundation has decided not to
run
the Fundraising banner in Italy during September.
In the last week, the Fundraising Team and Wikimedia Italia's board
worked
hard together to find a common solution. In these very last days, we continued a very honest and direct conversation. I just received the news, and I'm glad to share it with you all.
I personally think that the Fundraising Team made a brave move (as they will not likely meet the fundraising goals), and would love to see it welcomed with the respect it deserves.
Best regards
Andrea
On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 8:33 PM, Steinsplitter Wiki < steinsplitter-wiki@live.com> wrote:
Thank you Romaine for setting up the RFC on meta [1]!
So we can see what the community thinks about this.
[1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Fundraising_banne r_or_Wiki_Loves_Monuments_banner
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2015 19:04:41 +0200 From: romaine.wiki@gmail.com To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org;
wikilovesmonuments@lists.wikimedia.org
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wiki Loves Monuments] Wiki Loves Monuments
in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising
Hi all,
Having spoken with some people, I have come to the conclusion that it is time to ask the Wikimedia community what they think about this
situation. I
have especially seen both parties, the Wiki Loves Monuments organising teams who like to have a banner for Wiki Loves Monuments in September,
and
the WMF Fundraising team who likes to have a fundraising banner in September. Then the question remains: what has more value for the
Wikimedia
movement?
To find out what the Wikimedia community thinks about this situation, I have set up this Request for Comment:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Fundraising_banne r_or_Wiki_Loves_Monuments_banner
Romaine
2015-08-30 15:35 GMT+02:00 Romaine Wiki romaine.wiki@gmail.com:
Hi all,
New update:
The Italian team had some calls with the fundraising team and it
resulted
in:
- Wiki Loves Monuments gets the whole 4th week of September. So we
will have the WLM banner alone the first and the last week.
- WLM IT is discussing with the community a message in the Main
Page of Wikipedia
- WMF will try to put a link to WLM in the banner
- WMF will put a link to WLM in the Thank You letter for donors.
- WMF is helping WLM Italy with a blogpost in the blog, and social
media
fire
They made clear this won't happen again.
To me, the only improvements is their promise it won't happen again,
what
we certainly keep them having their promise in future, and that the
amount
of time the Wiki Loves Monuments banner is shown will be 50% of the
time.
The rest of the outcomes is lousy and they sold us empty boxes. Wiki
Loves
Monuments depends for about 99% on a CentralNotice banner. Most
visitors to
Wikipedia do not visit the main page of a wiki. I do not believe a
small
link to WLM in a large fundraising banner would help or is seen. I do
not
believe that a link in the Thank You letter for donors would work. A blogpost will be written anyway, as Wiki Loves Monuments is the largest project of the Wikimedia movement, but still it would not reach to the
core
people Wiki Loves Monuments is aiming at. And a social media fire, I
have
no believe in it that WMF would have any control in such and the core infrastructure is not under control by WMF.
And still no explanation why it is not possible to move the fundraising banner to a month later...
I can only conclude that we have been put off, in Dutch: afgescheept worden (literally: being shipped of).
At such having a blocking banner is sad news. A competition is large ruined by it.
What I consider the most demotivating is the play the fundraising team
of
WMF has played. I certainly do not consider it fair play. Too many
empty
promises, dividing the community to get less resistance, no fair negotiations, usage of the inexperience of volunteers, and more.
And even after explaining the community perspective many times by
multiple
people, I still have the impression some people in WMF still do not
really
get it.
I had the occasion in the past weeks that I spoke with people from WMF
who
are working for the foundation for some years, and I had to explain
what
Wiki Loves Monuments is. (And that was not the first time.) It is the largest project of the movement, recognised as largest photo contest
in the
world, and some WMF people do not know or understand. I was so
friendly to
explain it of course, but it gave mixed feelings.
And even after explaining the community perspective many times by
multiple
people, they do not really get it.
Lessons to be learned:
- Do not assume that the fundraising team takes the best position
for
the
movement, they have a target to make.
- Do not assume the fundraising team plays a fair play. They have
a
lot of
weight and use it.
- Do not assume that their first offer (in case of a blocking
banner)
is a
balanced, reasonable and well thought one.
- Do not expect them to know how much the impact is of something.
- Do expect them to offer empty shells/boxes/etc and are not
impressed
by
those.
- Say always no if they ask if a blocking banner or two banners at
the same time is okay. It has a devastating effect on your results. Yes you can, some chapters did and that was taken into
account seriously.
- Always have the complete team involved in the communication, and
even think of asking advisers (from outside WMF) for support and feedback
on the
proposals. Always have someone involved who has years of experience in
this
matter, otherwise you loose and the whole community looses.
But I think the best lesson learned is: with every blocking banner, let the community publicly decide what should be chosen.
Romaine
2015-08-30 14:00 GMT+02:00 Steinsplitter Wiki <
steinsplitter-wiki@live.com
:
I 100% agree with rupert's thoughts.
Wiki(p|m)edia was and is mad be volunteers, therefore volunteer first should apply. Volunteers are contributing the content for exactly zero dollars per hour. It is all because of free knowledge and other
stuff, but
not about money. It looks like money is fore some people moor
important
than free knowledge. It is frustrating...
Regards, Steinsplitter
> From: rupert.thurner@gmail.com > Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2015 21:35:46 +0200 > To: janbart@wikimedia.org; patricio.lorente@gmail.com; me.lyzzy@gmail.com; ubifrieda@gmail.com; jmh649@gmail.com; darekj@alk.edu.pl; denny.vrandecic@kit.edu; jwales@wikia.com; stu@wikimedia.org > CC: wikilovesmonuments@lists.wikimedia.org; wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wiki Loves Monuments] Wiki Loves
Monuments
in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising > > dear board, > > allow me to directly ask you to stop these fundraising persons > to
spoil
> wiki loves monuments because of less than intelligent KPIs. WMF
cannot
and > should not behave like an elephant in the porcelain shop. there > is a simple > technical solution to the problem below, to have a combined > banner
for
WLM > and donation. it is impossible that more money at stake as is
covered by
> the reserves, isn't it? i am really lacking words here ... the > only ones i > could find would not be compliant with the friendly space
policy.
if we
as > movement do not follow through the "volunteer first" rule than > it is better > to dissolve WMF, or split it in two parts, one holding the > rights
to the
> web URLs, i.e. right to banner, the other one employing all the
people
> doing some work. > > best, > rupert > > > On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 3:49 PM, Andrea Zanni <
zanni.andrea84@gmail.com
> > wrote: > > > Hello everyone. > > Sorry for the long mail but we wanted to explain the > > situation for Wikimedia Italia. > > The conversation is going on and it's better to clear some
important
> > points. > > > > In the second week of August Wikimedia Italia has been > > contacted
by
> > Kalliope Tsouroupidou and later by Jessica Robell, who > > explained
that
the > > Wikimedia Foundation was planning to have a fundraising > > campaign
in
Italy > > in September. > > We have been surprised by that, since Wiki Loves Monuments is well-known to > > run in September, and it has been like that for years. > > Moreover, there has been a similar clash in 2014: we > > discussed
for
several > > days, and in the end we reached a compromise, and the FR > > banners
went
live > > just for the last days. > > It was not perfect, but we had WLM banners for almost all
September.
> > This year the clash is on the whole month of September. Given > > the history, > > and the very fact that Wikimedia Italia has planned WLM and
written
so in > > the FDC application, we feel that WMIT has not been > > negligible in matters > > of > > communication. > > We are not *happy* with the situation, the very existence of > > the clash, the fact that all this appeared
in
the > > middle of August, while we were all on holiday and just few > > weeks before > > the beginning of WLM. > > We just decided not to pick up a fight, as we believe in
constructive
> > conversation and negotiation. > > The agreement we reached is very painful for WMIT and WLM: > > it's
just
better > > than not having the banners at all, or to have them for just > > a few days in > > the middle of September. > > Conversations with the FR team has been firm, but polite: > > this
does
not > > mean that we are happy about what is happening. > > Moreover, we will have to discuss with FDC to renegotiate > > expected results > > for WLM in 2015. > > > > Having the fundraising campaign in September in Italy has a > > clear negative > > impact on Wiki Loves Monuments, the largest project of > > Wikimedia Italia. > > This will not only likely reduce the number of participants > > and uploaded > > pictures, but will also put us in a difficult position in > > front
of our
> > sponsors and partners, including 200+ municipalities, 100+
cultural
> > institutions, and some major partners, like FIAF (the > > Federation
of
Italian > > photographers' associations), ICOM (the International Council > > of Museums), > > the Toscana Foto Festival (a major photo festival), Touring > > Club Italiano > > (the largest Italian touristic association), and others. WMIT
spends
> > thousands of euros in WLM each year - not because we waste > > money,
but
> > because we have higher stakes. > > > > This year, we will have in the Italian Jury international > > renowned photographers like (prabably: yet to be confirmed) > > Steve McCurry ( > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_McCurry) and Franco > > Fontana ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco_Fontana). > > This year, in June, we were received by several politicians > > from
the
> > Italian Parliament for an official meeting regarding the law > > we
are
> > fighting > > as WMIT. > > > > Because of the specific challenges we face, WLM in Italy goes
beyond
being > > a photographic competition and is also an opportunity to > > create relationships and advocate for the freedom of taking > > pictures of monuments. > > > > Italy does not have "freedom of panorama". > > Worst, Italy does not have freedom of panorama for any kind > > of monuments, > > even if copyright has expired. > > We need to ask for permission to make pictures of monuments.
For.
Every. > > Monument. > > We have to create lists of monuments to be photographed. > > There is
no
> > official list of monuments in Italy. > > > > There is *extensive* documentation here: > > > >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Italian_cultural_heritage_on_the_Wikim edia_projects
> > > > This is very important to know to put in perspective WLM > > Italy
stats:
> > http://stats.wikilovesmonuments.cl/italy. As an example, it > > is
the
reason > > why we have so many participants who contribute for few pics
each. In
2014 > > alone, we had 1038 uploaders, but we were only 6th in terms > > of
number
of > > photos. > > > > The global fundraising is essential to our movement. > > It funds Wikipedia operations, software development, the > > Wikimedia Foundation, many chapters and affiliates, and, of > > course, also
Wiki
Loves > > Monuments (even tough in Italy it is primarily funded from > > other sources). > > The global fundraising is meant to support the Wikimedia
movement:
but, for > > this very reason, it is a pity to have it clashing to one of > > the
very
> > activities it is meant to support. > > Especially since we are not talking about a 2 hours editathon > > in a small > > library in the middle of nowhere, but about an international competition > > who ended up in the Guinnes World Records, bringing thousands > > of pictures > > to the Wikimedia projects. > > We understand that fundraising is not an easy job, especially
when it
is > > done on a global level. Yet we feel obliged to use donors > > money to build > > and deliver the best projects we can: firstly out of respect > > for
all
the > > people who decided to donate their time, their money or their
career
to the > > movement; secondly because a badly executed projects could > > also
have a
> > negative impact on the next fundraising campaigns. > > We are all part of the same movement: the work of the WMF
fundraising
team > > is strictly linked to that of the community. We would like to > > be confident > > that what is happening now won't happen for a third time, and
that in
the > > future we will be able to communicate more effectively and > > work
more
> > collaboratively. > > We really are looking forward a more effective cooperation > > with
WMF
and all > > other Wikimedia Affiliates: collaboration is the very pillar > > of
all
the > > Wikimedia movement. > > > > We would like to thank all the people who supported us and > > gave us opinions > > and advices on this mailing list and elsewhere. > > We are very proud to be part of such a great community, and > > we
would
like > > to see it become wider and bigger. > > > > Andrea Zanni > > for the board of Wikimedia Italia > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
, > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscri be
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org <
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/GuidelinesWikimedia-l@li sts.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscri be
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.6086 / Virus Database: 4409/10544 - Release Date:
08/30/15
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
--
Megan Hernandez
Director of Online Fundraising Wikimedia Foundation _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe