Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wiki Loves Monuments] Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising

31 Aug 2015

      Interesting that this happens just after the RFC is started. Maybe no relevance...
Cheers,
P
-----Original Message-----
From: wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Andrea Zanni
Sent: Sunday, 30 August 2015 10:21 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List; Wiki Loves Monuments Photograph Competition
Cc: Wikimedia Chapters general discussions
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wiki Loves Monuments] Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising
Hello everybody.
I'm happy to announce that the Wikimedia Foundation has decided not to run the Fundraising banner in Italy during September.
In the last week, the Fundraising Team and Wikimedia Italia's board worked hard together to find a common solution. In these very last days, we continued a very honest and direct conversation.
I just received the news, and I'm glad to share it with you all.
I personally think that the Fundraising Team made a brave move (as they will not likely meet the fundraising goals), and would love to see it welcomed with the respect it deserves.
Best regards
Andrea
On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 8:33 PM, Steinsplitter Wiki < steinsplitter-wiki@live.com> wrote:
...
Thank you Romaine for setting up the RFC on meta [1]!
So we can see what the community thinks about this.
[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Fundraising_banne
r_or_Wiki_Loves_Monuments_banner
...
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2015 19:04:41 +0200
From: romaine.wiki@gmail.com
To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org;
wikilovesmonuments@lists.wikimedia.org
...
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wiki Loves Monuments] Wiki Loves 
Monuments
in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising
...
Hi all,
Having spoken with some people, I have come to the conclusion that 
it is time to ask the Wikimedia community what they think about this
situation. I
...
have especially seen both parties, the Wiki Loves Monuments 
organising teams who like to have a banner for Wiki Loves Monuments 
in September,
and
...
the WMF Fundraising team who likes to have a fundraising banner in 
September. Then the question remains: what has more value for the
Wikimedia
...
movement?
To find out what the Wikimedia community thinks about this 
situation, I have set up this Request for Comment:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Fundraising_banne
r_or_Wiki_Loves_Monuments_banner
...
Romaine
2015-08-30 15:35 GMT+02:00 Romaine Wiki romaine.wiki@gmail.com:
...
Hi all,
New update:
The Italian team had some calls with the fundraising team and it
resulted
...
...
in:

Wiki Loves Monuments gets the whole 4th week of September. So we

will have the WLM banner alone the first and the last week.

WLM IT is discussing with the community a message in the Main

Page of Wikipedia

WMF will try to put a link to WLM in the banner
WMF will put a link to WLM in the Thank You letter for donors.
WMF is helping WLM Italy with a blogpost in the blog, and social

media
...
...
fire
They made clear this won't happen again.
To me, the only improvements is their promise it won't happen 
again,
what
...
...
we certainly keep them having their promise in future, and that 
the
amount
...
...
of time the Wiki Loves Monuments banner is shown will be 50% of 
the
time.
...
...
The rest of the outcomes is lousy and they sold us empty boxes. 
Wiki
Loves
...
...
Monuments depends for about 99% on a CentralNotice banner. Most
visitors to
...
...
Wikipedia do not visit the main page of a wiki. I do not believe a
small
...
...
link to WLM in a large fundraising banner would help or is seen. I 
do
not
...
...
believe that a link in the Thank You letter for donors would work. 
A blogpost will be written anyway, as Wiki Loves Monuments is the 
largest project of the Wikimedia movement, but still it would not 
reach to the
core
...
...
people Wiki Loves Monuments is aiming at. And a social media fire, 
I
have
...
...
no believe in it that WMF would have any control in such and the 
core infrastructure is not under control by WMF.
And still no explanation why it is not possible to move the 
fundraising banner to a month later...
I can only conclude that we have been put off, in Dutch: 
afgescheept worden (literally: being shipped of).
At such having a blocking banner is sad news. A competition is 
large ruined by it.
What I consider the most demotivating is the play the fundraising 
team
of
...
...
WMF has played. I certainly do not consider it fair play. Too many
empty
...
...
promises, dividing the community to get less resistance, no fair 
negotiations, usage of the inexperience of volunteers, and more.
And even after explaining the community perspective many times by
multiple
...
...
people, I still have the impression some people in WMF still do 
not
really
...
...
get it.
I had the occasion in the past weeks that I spoke with people from 
WMF
who
...
...
are working for the foundation for some years, and I had to 
explain
what
...
...
Wiki Loves Monuments is. (And that was not the first time.) It is 
the largest project of the movement, recognised as largest photo 
contest
in the
...
...
world, and some WMF people do not know or understand. I was so
friendly to
...
...
explain it of course, but it gave mixed feelings.
And even after explaining the community perspective many times by
multiple
...
...
people, they do not really get it.
Lessons to be learned:

Do not assume that the fundraising team takes the best position

for
the
...
...
movement, they have a target to make.

Do not assume the fundraising team plays a fair play. They have

a
lot of
...
...
weight and use it.

Do not assume that their first offer (in case of a blocking

banner)
is a
...
...
balanced, reasonable and well thought one.

Do not expect them to know how much the impact is of something.
Do expect them to offer empty shells/boxes/etc and are not

impressed
by
...
...
those.

Say always no if they ask if a blocking banner or two banners at

the same time is okay. It has a devastating effect on your 
results. Yes you can, some chapters did and that was taken into account seriously.

Always have the complete team involved in the communication, and

even think of asking advisers (from outside WMF) for support and 
feedback
on the
...
...
proposals. Always have someone involved who has years of 
experience in
this
...
...
matter, otherwise you loose and the whole community looses.
But I think the best lesson learned is: with every blocking 
banner, let the community publicly decide what should be chosen.
Romaine
2015-08-30 14:00 GMT+02:00 Steinsplitter Wiki <
steinsplitter-wiki@live.com
...
...
...
:
...
I 100% agree with rupert's thoughts.
Wiki(p|m)edia was and is mad be volunteers, therefore volunteer 
first should apply. Volunteers are contributing the content for 
exactly zero dollars per hour. It is all because of free 
knowledge and other
stuff, but
...
...
...
not about money. It looks like money is fore some people moor
important
...
...
...
than free knowledge. It is frustrating...
Regards,
Steinsplitter
...
From: rupert.thurner@gmail.com
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2015 21:35:46 +0200
To: janbart@wikimedia.org; patricio.lorente@gmail.com;
me.lyzzy@gmail.com; ubifrieda@gmail.com; jmh649@gmail.com; 
darekj@alk.edu.pl; denny.vrandecic@kit.edu; jwales@wikia.com; 
stu@wikimedia.org
...
CC: wikilovesmonuments@lists.wikimedia.org;
wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
...
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wiki Loves Monuments] Wiki Loves
Monuments
...
...
...
in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising
...
dear board,
allow me to directly ask you to stop these fundraising persons 
to
spoil
...
...
...
...
wiki loves monuments because of less than intelligent KPIs. WMF
cannot
...
...
...
and
...
should not behave like an elephant in the porcelain shop. there 
is a
simple
...
technical solution to the problem below, to have a combined 
banner
for
...
...
...
WLM
...
and donation. it is impossible that more money at stake as is
covered by
...
...
...
...
the reserves, isn't it? i am really lacking words here ... the 
only
ones i
...
could find would not be compliant with the friendly space policy.
if we
...
...
...
as
...
movement do not follow through the "volunteer first" rule than 
it is
better
...
to dissolve WMF, or split it in two parts, one holding the 
rights
to the
...
...
...
...
web URLs, i.e. right to banner, the other one employing all the
people
...
...
...
...
doing some work.
best,
rupert
On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 3:49 PM, Andrea Zanni <
zanni.andrea84@gmail.com
...
...
...
...
wrote:
...
Hello everyone.
Sorry for the long mail but we wanted to explain the 
situation for Wikimedia Italia.
The conversation is going on and it's better to clear some
important
...
...
...
...
...
points.
In the second week of August Wikimedia Italia has been 
contacted
by
...
...
...
...
...
Kalliope Tsouroupidou and later by Jessica Robell, who 
explained
that
...
...
...
the
...
...
Wikimedia Foundation was planning to have a fundraising 
campaign
in
...
...
...
Italy
...
...
in September.
We have been surprised by that, since Wiki Loves Monuments is
well-known to
...
...
run in September, and it has been like that for years.
Moreover, there has been a similar clash in 2014:  we 
discussed
for
...
...
...
several
...
...
days, and in the end we reached a compromise, and the FR 
banners
went
...
...
...
live
...
...
just for the last days.
It was not perfect, but we had WLM banners for almost all
September.
...
...
...
...
...
This year the clash is on the whole month of September. Given 
the
history,
...
...
and the very fact that Wikimedia Italia has planned WLM and
written
...
...
...
so in
...
...
the FDC application, we feel that WMIT has not been 
negligible in
matters
...
...
of
communication.
We are not *happy* with the situation, the very existence of 
the clash, the fact that all this appeared
in
...
...
...
the
...
...
middle of August, while we were all on holiday and just few 
weeks
before
...
...
the beginning of WLM.
We just decided not to pick up a fight, as we believe in
constructive
...
...
...
...
...
conversation and negotiation.
The agreement we reached is very painful for WMIT and WLM: 
it's
just
...
...
...
better
...
...
than not having the banners at all, or to have them for just 
a few
days in
...
...
the middle of September.
Conversations with the FR team has been firm, but polite: 
this
does
...
...
...
not
...
...
mean that we are happy about what is happening.
Moreover, we will have to discuss with FDC to renegotiate 
expected
results
...
...
for WLM in 2015.
Having the fundraising campaign in September in Italy has a 
clear
negative
...
...
impact on Wiki Loves Monuments, the largest project of 
Wikimedia
Italia.
...
...
This will not only likely reduce the number of participants 
and
uploaded
...
...
pictures, but will also put us in a difficult position in 
front
of our
...
...
...
...
...
sponsors and partners, including 200+ municipalities, 100+
cultural
...
...
...
...
...
institutions, and some major partners, like FIAF (the 
Federation
of
...
...
...
Italian
...
...
photographers' associations), ICOM (the International Council 
of
Museums),
...
...
the Toscana Foto Festival (a major photo festival), Touring 
Club
Italiano
...
...
(the largest Italian touristic association), and others. WMIT
spends
...
...
...
...
...
thousands of euros in WLM each year - not because we waste 
money,
but
...
...
...
...
...
because we have higher stakes.
This year, we will have in the Italian Jury international 
renowned photographers like (prabably: yet to be confirmed) 
Steve McCurry (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_McCurry) and Franco 
Fontana ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco_Fontana).
This year, in June, we were received by several politicians 
from
the
...
...
...
...
...
Italian Parliament for an official meeting regarding the law 
we
are
...
...
...
...
...
fighting
as WMIT.
Because of the specific challenges we face, WLM in Italy goes
beyond
...
...
...
being
...
...
a photographic competition and is also an opportunity to 
create relationships and advocate for the freedom of taking 
pictures of
monuments.
...
...
Italy does not have "freedom of panorama".
Worst, Italy does not have freedom of panorama for any kind 
of
monuments,
...
...
even if copyright has expired.
We need to ask for permission to make pictures of monuments. For.
Every.
...
...
Monument.
We have to create lists of monuments to be photographed. 
There is
no
...
...
...
...
...
official list of monuments in Italy.
There is *extensive* documentation here:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Italian_cultural_heritage_on_the_Wikim
edia_projects
...
...
...
...
...
This is very important to know to put in perspective WLM 
Italy
stats:
...
...
...
...
...
http://stats.wikilovesmonuments.cl/italy. As an example, it 
is
the
...
...
...
reason
...
...
why we have so many participants who contribute for few pics
each. In
...
...
...
2014
...
...
alone, we had 1038 uploaders, but we were only 6th in terms 
of
number
...
...
...
of
...
...
photos.
The global fundraising is essential to our movement.
It funds Wikipedia operations, software development, the 
Wikimedia Foundation, many chapters and affiliates, and, of 
course, also
Wiki
...
...
...
Loves
...
...
Monuments (even tough in Italy it is primarily funded from 
other
sources).
...
...
The global fundraising is meant to support the Wikimedia movement:
but, for
...
...
this very reason, it is a pity to have it clashing to one of 
the
very
...
...
...
...
...
activities it is meant to support.
Especially since we are not talking about a 2 hours editathon 
in a
small
...
...
library in the middle of nowhere, but about an international
competition
...
...
who ended up in the Guinnes World Records, bringing thousands 
of
pictures
...
...
to the Wikimedia projects.
We understand that fundraising is not an easy job, especially
when it
...
...
...
is
...
...
done on a global level. Yet we feel obliged to use donors 
money to
build
...
...
and deliver the best projects we can: firstly out of respect 
for
all
...
...
...
the
...
...
people who decided to donate their time, their money or their
career
...
...
...
to the
...
...
movement; secondly because a badly executed projects could 
also
have a
...
...
...
...
...
negative impact on the next fundraising campaigns.
We are all part of the same movement: the work of the WMF
fundraising
...
...
...
team
...
...
is strictly linked to that of the community. We would like to 
be
confident
...
...
that what is happening now won't happen for a third time, and
that in
...
...
...
the
...
...
future we will be able to communicate more effectively and 
work
more
...
...
...
...
...
collaboratively.
We really are looking forward a more effective cooperation 
with
WMF
...
...
...
and all
...
...
other Wikimedia Affiliates: collaboration is the very pillar 
of
all
...
...
...
the
...
...
Wikimedia movement.
We would like to thank all the people who supported us and 
gave us
opinions
...
...
and advices on this mailing list and elsewhere.
We are very proud to be part of such a great community, and 
we
would
...
...
...
like
...
...
to see it become wider and bigger.
Andrea Zanni
for the board of Wikimedia Italia 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wiki Loves Monuments] Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising