I shared a few times already that change was unlikely this year and that this should be left to a standing committee. I believe James did the same thing as well. Other text was offering explanation on why and thoughts for that group - as I stated. Apologies if that was not clearer.
-greg
_______________ Sent from my iPhone - a more detailed response may be sent later.
On Apr 29, 2015, at 9:46 AM, Fæ faewik@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks for the summary. I look forward to an open consultation process when the elections committee sorts itself out.
Until that time discussion here, and that over the past year, is not a good use of volunteer time, as it cannot change anything. This could have been a useful reply up front.
Fae
On 29 Apr 2015 14:36, "Gregory Varnum" gregory.varnum@gmail.com wrote:
Fae,
I should be clearer - I do not expect the community to address these issues before the topic of a standing elections committee is addressed first. I think that is my main point here. These issues are not as simple as some are presenting, and that does not mean the ultimate answers are not easy, but there should be more time allotted to discussion by a group tasked with reviewing these things than is available to the temporary committees. I would not support the idea of a public RFC with no clear plan on how to implement any of the proposed changes. Much of this discussion feels like we are putting the cart before the horse - so to speak.
-greg
On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 8:56 AM, Fæ faewik@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Greg,
Yes these are questions.
I suggest that if you expect the community to address them, that a meaningful open process of consultation is run. As discussion of this proposal has already taken a year, and may take months rather than weeks going forward, it would be great if someone who has taken a leadership role by becoming a Elections Committee member were to take responsibility for leading the process.
This email discussion is already TLDR level, and so it is more frustrating than edifying, it would be neat to move over to a managed set of wiki pages for clear proposals for change, feedback and votes. This to be implemented well in advance of the 2016 election.
PS my viewpoint of "people without interest in contributing to any Wikimedia projects even at a newbie level, should not have an automatic vote in an election for a board to govern Wikimedia" is unlikely to change much, but I have not read a solid proposal yet.
Fae
On 29 April 2015 at 12:30, Gregory Varnum gregory.varnum@gmail.com wrote:
Some questions though - if WMUK staff are included, should WUG staff
also
be included? If they are included, why not include the people doing staff-level volunteer work for non-staffed affiliates? If those
volunteers
are included, what about user group leaders who are not active editors? User groups are not currently a part of the affiliation seat elections,
so
what should be done about their leaders? Are we punishing affiliates
that
are being more creative in finding ways to accomplish tasks without
staff
support? I see a lot of flaws with leaving this conversation at "staff"
and
not extending it beyond that, and as I said previously, doing so is
rather
complex.
To keep the election "fair" - these questions would need to be answered first. It is not as simple as saying "okay - affiliate staff are now
in"
as even the term "affiliate staff" is not universally agreed upon yet.
Does
staff mean they are on a payroll of some sort? This conversation is
easy
if
we are talking about 5-6 of the larger chapters, it is more complex if
we
are talking about nearly 75 affiliates.
The assumption that WMF impacts the affiliates so much they are paying
as
close attention as WMF staff does not hold up in my opinion. People ask
why
treat them differently, and I think there are relatively clear reasons.
WMF
staff are arguably just as impacted by WMUK business, but are not
eligible
to vote in their board elections, and I think with good reason. I
recognize
that WMF is very different as it is the "hub" - but most of the
arguments I
have seen are about "impact" and based on unproven assumptions based on experience with 1-2 affiliates rather than thinking about all 70 of
them. I
recognize allowing someone to vote does not require them to, but in
some
cultures and work environments, that might play out differently.
As KTC pointed out - each affiliate handles their voting in the
affiliate
seats differently. So even some of our assumptions about involvement in affiliate election are broad and not fully researched yet. Which is the "norm" - is there a norm? In short, we need to do more research on this topic, and that will take time we do not have (as a committee anyway)
right
now.
-greg
On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 5:57 AM, Dariusz Jemielniak <darekj@alk.edu.pl
wrote:
hi James,
On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 11:06 AM, James Alexander < jalexander@wikimedia.org> wrote:
*Staff: *I have always thought that the Staff need to be considered
part
of
the community.
I think the main thing is why should WMF staff be treated any
differently
than WMDE, WMFR, or WMUK staff. All are engaged (although through employment) in the community. I understand that the argument is that
the
chapters have their seats secured from a separate poll, while WMF does
not.
I'm inclined to agree with your previous view: since most of the
staffers
satisfy other requirements anyway, and since there are many chapters/affiliate groups of different levels of involvement, and also since these groups have their seats secured from a separate poll
(unlike
WMF), the easiest way would probably be to introduce low, uniform editing/involvement requirements, well ahead of time, and stop distinguishing employment status.
In fact, one could experiment with adding WMF as an organization equal
to
chapters to elections of "chapter seats", and banning WMF/chapters employees from "community seats" elections altogether ;) But
seriously,
I
think the practical thing to do would be to start working on the rules
of
next elections right after the current ones are over, and introduce eligibility based on actual activity only (with possible lower requirements).
best,
dj "pundit"
--
prof. dr hab. Dariusz Jemielniak kierownik katedry Zarządzania Międzynarodowego i centrum badawczego CROW Akademia Leona Koźmińskiego http://www.crow.alk.edu.pl
członek Akademii Młodych Uczonych Polskiej Akademii Nauk członek Komitetu Polityki Naukowej MNiSW
Wyszła pierwsza na świecie etnografia Wikipedii "Common Knowledge? An Ethnography of Wikipedia" (2014, Stanford University Press) mojego autorstwa http://www.sup.org/book.cgi?id=24010
Recenzje Forbes: http://www.forbes.com/fdc/welcome_mjx.shtml Pacific Standard:
http://www.psmag.com/navigation/books-and-culture/killed-wikipedia-93777/
Motherboard:
http://motherboard.vice.com/read/an-ethnography-of-wikipedia
The Wikipedian:
http://thewikipedian.net/2014/10/10/dariusz-jemielniak-common-knowledge
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