Hi Peter,
The complete quote goes: "There must be another way to work for the value
of "free knowledge for the people" but to destroy net neutrality and the
experience of an open web in the very beginning at the same time."
When it comes to schools and other educational organisations in developing
countries the project "Wikipedia on a USB-Stick" was a good idea to start
from I think. Something equally usuable for mobiles could be one direction
to think. But of course, as the Walled Wikipedia of WP0 this project isn't
really giving the full experience of an open and free wikipedia. So it
would be a pratical alternative for WP0 (without the dealing with the
access providers), but nothing more.
Apart from this existing project I described in a former discussion (and in
talks with e.g. Jan-Bart and others) that a more political initiative of a
"public open knowledge project" with delepment of a first framework could
be a midterm approach. In short: the public knowledge project would define
standard framework for content which has to be provided for free to
everybody for free use.
This could include different knowledge providing entities from public via
civil-societal to even free content of commercial providers. Every content
could be proved to fit the standards for open knowledge and in different
countries different content providers would create the mix. The system
would be open and so it would be independent from the access providers.
It could be mandatory or non-mandatory for the access providers to offer
access to the public open knowledge project (which in essence would be a
list of registered websites you have full-functional access to), according
to what would be more appropiated for the actual market situation in the
country or area. The government could provide subsidies for the cost the
access providers have - it would be seen as cost for the cultural &
intellectual infrastructure of your country (like libraries, museums,
schools etc. today.) It would be a mixture between public service and
voluntary engagment of civil and commercial players framed by standards
which are discussed in an possibly multi-stakeholder forum regularly. Then
Wikipedia could be an important knot in a free public knowledge network
secured by laws, international cooperations and civil engagement.
This, of course, would first make the access providers cry out loud,
because of - as they would describe it - unbearable duties for single
telecoms. And surely it would need support by international community,
government and cooperation between the single access providers.
Also, in an absolutist way this would be a violation of net neutrality, but
it would be a violation that isn't driven by the intent to develop a market
with customers used to pay different prizes for different data types which
is the clear intent for which WP0 is misused in reality. Market isn't a
solution for everything. A open public knowledge project would establish an
area in the web which could be experienced as true publicness, as a truely
public place, created, operated and sustained by the triangle which makes
the public (state-people-business). It would be like a public web inside
the internet. Considering the commercialisation of the internet and the
access to it that could be an important counterbalance to the ongoing
development.
Well, this is just a quick thought and surely as ambitious as WP0 is in its
way, but its not always about only the ambition, but also about the path
you walk to reach the then version of what you thought is right in the
beginning. This project would be a real piece of work in strategic
multi-partnership and not some cheap play with some access providers
looking to enrichen their marketing bouquet with the beautiful Wikipedia
flower. It would truely mean to take all our values seriously and work on a
partnership that puts Wikipedia in the center of a network of free
knowledge that would deserve that name. It would mean to become an grown-up
organisation taking strategic professional care of the field it works and
leads in - free knowledge.
Apart from that quick idea I'm also not the only one this question should
be asked. And apart from all possible answers, WP0 still stays the wrong
path. Some things are already wrong even before you learn that their
numbers also don't work out. In the end WP0 is a tiny example about the
ethos of WMF. Do you believe market and entrepreneurship is always good for
your common target (like e.g. free knowledge) or does even
something anarchistic like the web has some structural framework - even
unrecognized in its beginnings - that make sure that openess is possible?
net neutrality isn't a religion (like some people here havong no godd
arguments on their own try to phrase), but net neutrality could be an
important piece of the framework which is needed to balance a network
structure which is "ruled" by the governments, by the companies and -
happily - by the people in the same time.
So far some quick thoughts,
Jens
2015-04-01 23:47 GMT+02:00 Peter Southwood <peter.southwood(a)telkomsa.net>et>:
OK, you say 'There must be another way to work for
the value of "free
knowledge for the people"', so what is it?
Peter
(also in the global south)
-----Original Message-----
From: wikimedia-l-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:
wikimedia-l-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Jens Best
Sent: 31 March 2015 09:27 AM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Introducing Kourosh Karimkhany, Vice President
of Strategic Partnerships
Dear Gerard,
your arguments are just emotional rhetorics. Saying that "white,
privileged and well educated" people aren't allowed to critize ways how
first-world-led telecoms (like Orange, Telenor) are spreading a wrong,
non-open "internet" in developing countries is just plain emotional
rhetoric far away from any fact.
Wikipedia Zero is NOT bringing the free knowledge of the world to the
people, it's bringing Wikipedia to the people, not more, not less. Also,
zero-rating is helping to establish user habits which are used to have
different prices for different kinds of data - That is the clearest
violation of net neutrality and therefore of an open and free web.
Ignoring this is just helping the (first-world-led) Telecoms to establish
NOT a free internet which also helped to create something like Wikipedia,
but a walled garden system where you pay for different data of even (as it
is the case e.g. in some parts of India) different websites. I think that
it is ignorant to profit only short-term by bringing a Walled Wikipedia to
the people and having Wikipedia in this exclusive deal in comparison to
establish a sustainable way to bring free knowledge (which is far more than
Wikipedia) to the people.
There must be another way to work for the value of "free knowledge for the
people" but to destroy net neutrality and the experience of an open web in
the very beginning at the same time. It is the duty of WMF to take care
also of the framework which enabled Wikipedia in the start. Ignoring this
and being proud of having a comfortable deal with some Telecoms is plain
wrong and irresponsible - especially for a free and open digital
development of the Global South.
best regards
Jens Best
2015-03-31 9:05 GMT+02:00 Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com>om>:
Hoi,
With Wikipedia Zero people have access to knowledge that they would
not have otherwise. It is well established that having information
readily available is an important indicator for further development.
Not having Wikipedia available is absolutely a worse situation than
having it.
Your argument is imho a bleeding heart stance. Would it not be better
if..
My answer is sure HOWEVER given that the
objective of Wikipedia is to
share in the sum of all knowledge, your argument is decidedly
secondary. Sources may be important but they are secondary to having
the information available in the first place. As long as we have
sources in full blown Wikipedia, as long as it is WMF that provides
the Wikipedia Zero content... what is your point. Yes, ideally we want
people to ensure that people know about sources. When sources are just
statements of fact and they are in turn not accessible because of cost.
What is
your point in practical terms?
Wikipedia Zero is very much a fulfillment of our aspirations. Do not
forget who you are: white, privileged and well educated. What you
propose is taking away something that you take for granted. Not nice.
Thanks,
GerardM
On 30 March 2015 at 20:37, Andreas Kolbe <jayen466(a)gmail.com> wrote:
The recent Newsweek story on the Wifione / IIPM
admin corruption
case[1] has clear implications for Wikipedia Zero.
Wikipedia Zero creates hundreds of millions of passive Wikipedia
users
who:
- Cannot see the sources of a Wikipedia article (I believe SMS users
cannot
even see which statements *are* sourced and to
what)
- Cannot view alternative sources
- Cannot meaningfully edit Wikipedia (lacking access to new sources)
At the same time, Wikipedia Zero creates a monopoly position for
Wikipedia
that makes the site an even greater target for
manipulation by local
elites, who *do* enjoy full read/write access to Wikipedia. Such
monopolies
are fundamentally incompatible with the values
underlying the idea
of a free and open web. Monopolies ultimately result in *control*
rather than
*freedom* of information.
The Wifione case illustrates that even in the English Wikipedia
attempts
at
manipulation, focused on topics that the average
Wikipedia
contributor
has
little interest in or knowledge about, can be
successful and remain
undetected for years. Small, regional-language Wikipedias are far
more unstable still, as the example of the Croatian Wikipedia
demonstrated all too clearly.
Wikipedia is far too vulnerable to become the gatekeeper for
information
in
developing countries -- if such a gatekeeper were
even desirable
(which
it
is not).
To give another example, I see that Wikipedia Zero is available in
Kazakhstan.
Jimmy Wales recently asserted on Reddit that the Kazakh government
"does not control the Kazahk *[sic]* Wikipedia".[2]
The Kazakh government, however, seems to disagree with Jimmy
Wales.[3]
The Kazakh Prime Minister's official website has stated since 2011
that
the
Kazakh Wikipedia project "is implemented
under the auspices of the
Government of Kazakhstan and with the support of Prime Minister
Karim Massimov", quoting the head of WikiBilim and 2011 Wikipedian
of the Year, who today holds the office of a Deputy Governor in the
Kazakh
government[4]
and is the Founding Director of a Brussels-based
think tank, the
"Eurasian
Council on Foreign Affairs", which is widely
considered a PR front
of the Kazakh government.[5][6][7]
Is aiding the market dominance and penetration of such a source
through Wikipedia Zero in line with movement values? Is the type of
collaboration described on Wikimedia's Outreach page for
Kazakhstan?[8] I don't think
so.
I thought we were on the side of those fighting for freedom of
speech,
not
the side of those suppressing it.
It's a concrete example of Wikipedia Zero aiding an oppressive
government in the control of information -- not at some point in the
future, but today.
For a thoughtful examination of the issues surrounding Wikipedia
Zero,
I'd
ask everyone to take 5 minutes of their time to
listen to the
presentation
Thomas Lohninger gave at the Chaos Communication
Congress in
December
2014,
"Net Neutrality: Days of Future
Past?"[9] Time code 37:00 onward.
I would be glad to see the Wikimedia Foundation rejoin the ranks of
those fighting for freedom of speech, and a free and open web for all.
[1]
http://www.newsweek.com/2015/04/03/manipulating-wikipedia-promote-bogu
s-business-school-316133.html
http://www.silkroadreporters.com/2015/02/20/jack-straw-slammed-taking-
job-kazakhstan/
[6]
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/jack-straw-criticised
-for-accepting-parttime-job-paid-for-by-kazakhstan-10057426.html
http://media.ccc.de/browse/congress/2014/31c3_-_6170_-_en_-_saal_g_-_2
01412282145_-_net_neutrality_days_of_future_past_-_rejo_zenger_-_thoma
s_lohninger.html
>
> On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 at 12:15 AM, Jens Best <best.jens(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> > Well,
> >
> >
> > first of all, welcome Kourosh.
> >
> > I'm looking forward to see how the reality of this exciting job
> description
> > gonna look like. For me this also sounds like a clear move to a
> > more politically positioned understanding of this aspect of the
> > growing importance of the Wikimedia-Movment globally. "Advancement
Department"
>
sounds pretty neutral, but certainly it isn't at all.
>
> When it comes to "collaboration with like-minded organizations"
decisions
> surely are also carried by a stronger public
postioning of the
> values
of
> the movement. Some of the decisions in the
past, especially when
> it
comes
to
collaborations with commercial internet players maybe need to
be
openly
and transparently re-evaluated.
If Kourosh is settled in I would like to see a global, transparent
and
open
discussion about our program "Wikipedia
Zero" which is under
global
critic
> by OpenWeb-NGOs and other worried members of the civil society in
> the
US,
in the
"Global South" and in Europe.
Wikipedia Zero which for me is a straight marketing element of
some
clever
telecoms to sell their mobile products in
developing markets and
therefore
> infusing an user-experience of data-specific payment habits, needs
> to
be
re-evaluated with a professional look that includes awareness of
what implications strategic partnerships can have on our core values.
The well-meant intentions which carried the Wikipedia Zero
programme
inside
WMF to the point where it is now maybe were a
little starry-eyed.
Let's
not
> forget that a zero-rated Wikipedia which can't connect to the
> linked knowledge of the world is just a *Walled Wikipedia *and
> therefore a questionable contribution to our core belief of
> giving free knowledge
to
the
people - by the people.
The intensity with which the global fight about net neutrality is
lead because of the commercial interests of the telecoms surely
doesn't stop
at
the markets of the Global South - therefore
Wikimedia movement has
to
make
> perfectly clear which line is walked on this central matter of a
> free
and
> open internet.
>
> You see, Kourosh, the challenges are big and I'm looking forward
> to
have
an
experienced person overlooking the future
developments in this field.
best regards and a good start
Jens Best
2015-03-27 21:13 GMT+01:00 Lila Tretikov <lila(a)wikimedia.org>rg>:
> Dear Wikimedians,
>
> In order to encourage the expansion of knowledge, we’ve been
considering
> > new ways to support and develop the work you do. Collaboration
> > is an essential part of the Wikimedia movement, and today, I’m
> > excited to
let
> you
> > know about a new addition at the Wikimedia Foundation that will
support
> our
> > collaboration with like-minded organizations.
> >
> > For some time now, we’ve planned to hire a Vice President of
Strategic
> > Partnerships. Today, I am pleased to
announce that Kourosh
> > Karimkhany
> will
> > step into this role on March 30, 2015.
> >
> > Kourosh will be responsible for crafting a strategy to grow
> > long-term
> value
> > for Wikimedia projects through building meaningful partnerships,
> projects,
> > and relationships on behalf of the Wikimedia Foundation. He will
become
> > part of the C-level team and will
report to Lisa Gruwell.
> > Kourosh
will
> also
> > oversee Wikipedia Zero, which will transition to the
> > partnerships
team.
> > >
> > > The Wikimedia community has many fruitful and creative
> > > partnerships
> that
> > > help support knowledge creation and sharing around the world.
> > > The partnerships Kourosh will support will will help us better
> > > support
> these
> > > partnerships and your work, as well as grow strategic
> > > initiatives we
> take
> > > on at the WMF.
> > >
> > > Kourosh was born in Iran and moved to the U.S. as a child with
> > > his
> > family.
> > > Today, he is an experienced digital media professional with a
> > > passion
> for
> > > sharing information with the world. He started his career as a
> technology
> > > journalist covering Silicon Valley for Bloomberg, Reuters and
Wired.
He
> > > switched to the business side of media when he joined Yahoo as
> > > senior producer of Yahoo News. Later, he led corporate
> > > development at Conde
> Nast
> > > where he spearheaded the acquisition of
Wired.com, Ars Technica
> > > and
> > Reddit.
> > > He also cofounded Food Republic in 2009, which was acquired in
2013.
He's
> > an active angel investor and startup advisor.
> >
> > In light of the expanded scope of the Fundraising team and the
revamped
>
partnerships team, we’re changing the team's name to better
> reflect
their
> mission. The new name is the Advancement
Department. To learn
> more
about
> > the new role, visit the FAQ here:
> >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WMF_Partnerships_FAQ
> >
> > Please join me in welcoming Kourosh as the newest member of the
> > WMF leadership team. We have many exciting projects in 2015 and
> > I’m
looking
> > forward to all the great things we will
accomplish as we work
together
to
> > support our mission.
> >
> > ~~~~Lila
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> >
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