Hi Peter,
The complete quote goes: "There must be another way to work for the value of "free knowledge for the people" but to destroy net neutrality and the experience of an open web in the very beginning at the same time."
When it comes to schools and other educational organisations in developing countries the project "Wikipedia on a USB-Stick" was a good idea to start from I think. Something equally usuable for mobiles could be one direction to think. But of course, as the Walled Wikipedia of WP0 this project isn't really giving the full experience of an open and free wikipedia. So it would be a pratical alternative for WP0 (without the dealing with the access providers), but nothing more.
Apart from this existing project I described in a former discussion (and in talks with e.g. Jan-Bart and others) that a more political initiative of a "public open knowledge project" with delepment of a first framework could be a midterm approach. In short: the public knowledge project would define standard framework for content which has to be provided for free to everybody for free use. This could include different knowledge providing entities from public via civil-societal to even free content of commercial providers. Every content could be proved to fit the standards for open knowledge and in different countries different content providers would create the mix. The system would be open and so it would be independent from the access providers.
It could be mandatory or non-mandatory for the access providers to offer access to the public open knowledge project (which in essence would be a list of registered websites you have full-functional access to), according to what would be more appropiated for the actual market situation in the country or area. The government could provide subsidies for the cost the access providers have - it would be seen as cost for the cultural & intellectual infrastructure of your country (like libraries, museums, schools etc. today.) It would be a mixture between public service and voluntary engagment of civil and commercial players framed by standards which are discussed in an possibly multi-stakeholder forum regularly. Then Wikipedia could be an important knot in a free public knowledge network secured by laws, international cooperations and civil engagement.
This, of course, would first make the access providers cry out loud, because of - as they would describe it - unbearable duties for single telecoms. And surely it would need support by international community, government and cooperation between the single access providers. Also, in an absolutist way this would be a violation of net neutrality, but it would be a violation that isn't driven by the intent to develop a market with customers used to pay different prizes for different data types which is the clear intent for which WP0 is misused in reality. Market isn't a solution for everything. A open public knowledge project would establish an area in the web which could be experienced as true publicness, as a truely public place, created, operated and sustained by the triangle which makes the public (state-people-business). It would be like a public web inside the internet. Considering the commercialisation of the internet and the access to it that could be an important counterbalance to the ongoing development.
Well, this is just a quick thought and surely as ambitious as WP0 is in its way, but its not always about only the ambition, but also about the path you walk to reach the then version of what you thought is right in the beginning. This project would be a real piece of work in strategic multi-partnership and not some cheap play with some access providers looking to enrichen their marketing bouquet with the beautiful Wikipedia flower. It would truely mean to take all our values seriously and work on a partnership that puts Wikipedia in the center of a network of free knowledge that would deserve that name. It would mean to become an grown-up organisation taking strategic professional care of the field it works and leads in - free knowledge.
Apart from that quick idea I'm also not the only one this question should be asked. And apart from all possible answers, WP0 still stays the wrong path. Some things are already wrong even before you learn that their numbers also don't work out. In the end WP0 is a tiny example about the ethos of WMF. Do you believe market and entrepreneurship is always good for your common target (like e.g. free knowledge) or does even something anarchistic like the web has some structural framework - even unrecognized in its beginnings - that make sure that openess is possible? net neutrality isn't a religion (like some people here havong no godd arguments on their own try to phrase), but net neutrality could be an important piece of the framework which is needed to balance a network structure which is "ruled" by the governments, by the companies and - happily - by the people in the same time.
So far some quick thoughts,
Jens
2015-04-01 23:47 GMT+02:00 Peter Southwood peter.southwood@telkomsa.net:
OK, you say 'There must be another way to work for the value of "free knowledge for the people"', so what is it? Peter (also in the global south)
-----Original Message----- From: wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto: wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Jens Best Sent: 31 March 2015 09:27 AM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Introducing Kourosh Karimkhany, Vice President of Strategic Partnerships
Dear Gerard,
your arguments are just emotional rhetorics. Saying that "white, privileged and well educated" people aren't allowed to critize ways how first-world-led telecoms (like Orange, Telenor) are spreading a wrong, non-open "internet" in developing countries is just plain emotional rhetoric far away from any fact.
Wikipedia Zero is NOT bringing the free knowledge of the world to the people, it's bringing Wikipedia to the people, not more, not less. Also, zero-rating is helping to establish user habits which are used to have different prices for different kinds of data - That is the clearest violation of net neutrality and therefore of an open and free web.
Ignoring this is just helping the (first-world-led) Telecoms to establish NOT a free internet which also helped to create something like Wikipedia, but a walled garden system where you pay for different data of even (as it is the case e.g. in some parts of India) different websites. I think that it is ignorant to profit only short-term by bringing a Walled Wikipedia to the people and having Wikipedia in this exclusive deal in comparison to establish a sustainable way to bring free knowledge (which is far more than Wikipedia) to the people.
There must be another way to work for the value of "free knowledge for the people" but to destroy net neutrality and the experience of an open web in the very beginning at the same time. It is the duty of WMF to take care also of the framework which enabled Wikipedia in the start. Ignoring this and being proud of having a comfortable deal with some Telecoms is plain wrong and irresponsible - especially for a free and open digital development of the Global South.
best regards
Jens Best
2015-03-31 9:05 GMT+02:00 Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com:
Hoi, With Wikipedia Zero people have access to knowledge that they would not have otherwise. It is well established that having information readily available is an important indicator for further development. Not having Wikipedia available is absolutely a worse situation than
having it.
Your argument is imho a bleeding heart stance. Would it not be better
if..
My answer is sure HOWEVER given that the objective of Wikipedia is to share in the sum of all knowledge, your argument is decidedly secondary. Sources may be important but they are secondary to having the information available in the first place. As long as we have sources in full blown Wikipedia, as long as it is WMF that provides the Wikipedia Zero content... what is your point. Yes, ideally we want people to ensure that people know about sources. When sources are just statements of fact and they are in turn not accessible because of cost.
What is your point in practical terms?
Wikipedia Zero is very much a fulfillment of our aspirations. Do not forget who you are: white, privileged and well educated. What you propose is taking away something that you take for granted. Not nice. Thanks, GerardM
On 30 March 2015 at 20:37, Andreas Kolbe jayen466@gmail.com wrote:
The recent Newsweek story on the Wifione / IIPM admin corruption case[1] has clear implications for Wikipedia Zero.
Wikipedia Zero creates hundreds of millions of passive Wikipedia users
who:
- Cannot see the sources of a Wikipedia article (I believe SMS users
cannot
even see which statements *are* sourced and to what)
- Cannot view alternative sources
- Cannot meaningfully edit Wikipedia (lacking access to new sources)
At the same time, Wikipedia Zero creates a monopoly position for
Wikipedia
that makes the site an even greater target for manipulation by local elites, who *do* enjoy full read/write access to Wikipedia. Such
monopolies
are fundamentally incompatible with the values underlying the idea of a free and open web. Monopolies ultimately result in *control* rather than *freedom* of information.
The Wifione case illustrates that even in the English Wikipedia attempts
at
manipulation, focused on topics that the average Wikipedia contributor
has
little interest in or knowledge about, can be successful and remain undetected for years. Small, regional-language Wikipedias are far more unstable still, as the example of the Croatian Wikipedia demonstrated all too clearly.
Wikipedia is far too vulnerable to become the gatekeeper for information
in
developing countries -- if such a gatekeeper were even desirable (which
it
is not).
To give another example, I see that Wikipedia Zero is available in Kazakhstan.
Jimmy Wales recently asserted on Reddit that the Kazakh government "does not control the Kazahk *[sic]* Wikipedia".[2]
The Kazakh government, however, seems to disagree with Jimmy Wales.[3]
The Kazakh Prime Minister's official website has stated since 2011 that
the
Kazakh Wikipedia project "is implemented under the auspices of the Government of Kazakhstan and with the support of Prime Minister Karim Massimov", quoting the head of WikiBilim and 2011 Wikipedian of the Year, who today holds the office of a Deputy Governor in the Kazakh
government[4]
and is the Founding Director of a Brussels-based think tank, the
"Eurasian
Council on Foreign Affairs", which is widely considered a PR front of the Kazakh government.[5][6][7]
Is aiding the market dominance and penetration of such a source through Wikipedia Zero in line with movement values? Is the type of collaboration described on Wikimedia's Outreach page for Kazakhstan?[8] I don't think
so.
I thought we were on the side of those fighting for freedom of speech,
not
the side of those suppressing it.
It's a concrete example of Wikipedia Zero aiding an oppressive government in the control of information -- not at some point in the future, but today.
For a thoughtful examination of the issues surrounding Wikipedia Zero,
I'd
ask everyone to take 5 minutes of their time to listen to the
presentation
Thomas Lohninger gave at the Chaos Communication Congress in December
2014,
"Net Neutrality: Days of Future Past?"[9] Time code 37:00 onward.
I would be glad to see the Wikimedia Foundation rejoin the ranks of those fighting for freedom of speech, and a free and open web for all.
[1]
http://www.newsweek.com/2015/04/03/manipulating-wikipedia-promote-bogu s-business-school-316133.html
[2] https://archive.today/nyt1z – for the entire discussion three, see https://archive.today/V1uG4 [3] https://archive.today/7kSLO [4] http://www.inform.kz/eng/article/2730173 [5]
http://www.silkroadreporters.com/2015/02/20/jack-straw-slammed-taking- job-kazakhstan/
[6]
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/jack-straw-criticised -for-accepting-parttime-job-paid-for-by-kazakhstan-10057426.html
[7] http://www.equaltimes.org/pr-firms-at-the-service-of-human [8] https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/Countries/Kazakhstan https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Education/Countries/Kazakhs tan [9]
http://media.ccc.de/browse/congress/2014/31c3_-_6170_-_en_-_saal_g_-_2 01412282145_-_net_neutrality_days_of_future_past_-_rejo_zenger_-_thoma s_lohninger.html
On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 at 12:15 AM, Jens Best best.jens@gmail.com
wrote:
Well,
first of all, welcome Kourosh.
I'm looking forward to see how the reality of this exciting job
description
gonna look like. For me this also sounds like a clear move to a more politically positioned understanding of this aspect of the growing importance of the Wikimedia-Movment globally. "Advancement
Department"
sounds pretty neutral, but certainly it isn't at all.
When it comes to "collaboration with like-minded organizations"
decisions
surely are also carried by a stronger public postioning of the values
of
the movement. Some of the decisions in the past, especially when it
comes
to collaborations with commercial internet players maybe need to be
openly
and transparently re-evaluated.
If Kourosh is settled in I would like to see a global, transparent and
open
discussion about our program "Wikipedia Zero" which is under global
critic
by OpenWeb-NGOs and other worried members of the civil society in the
US,
in the "Global South" and in Europe.
Wikipedia Zero which for me is a straight marketing element of some
clever
telecoms to sell their mobile products in developing markets and
therefore
infusing an user-experience of data-specific payment habits, needs to
be
re-evaluated with a professional look that includes awareness of what implications strategic partnerships can have on our core values.
The well-meant intentions which carried the Wikipedia Zero programme
inside
WMF to the point where it is now maybe were a little starry-eyed. Let's
not
forget that a zero-rated Wikipedia which can't connect to the linked knowledge of the world is just a *Walled Wikipedia *and therefore a questionable contribution to our core belief of giving free knowledge
to
the people - by the people.
The intensity with which the global fight about net neutrality is lead because of the commercial interests of the telecoms surely doesn't stop
at
the markets of the Global South - therefore Wikimedia movement has to
make
perfectly clear which line is walked on this central matter of a free
and
open internet.
You see, Kourosh, the challenges are big and I'm looking forward to
have
an
experienced person overlooking the future developments in this field.
best regards and a good start
Jens Best
2015-03-27 21:13 GMT+01:00 Lila Tretikov lila@wikimedia.org:
Dear Wikimedians,
In order to encourage the expansion of knowledge, we’ve been
considering
new ways to support and develop the work you do. Collaboration is an essential part of the Wikimedia movement, and today, I’m excited to
let
you
know about a new addition at the Wikimedia Foundation that will
support
our
collaboration with like-minded organizations.
For some time now, we’ve planned to hire a Vice President of
Strategic
Partnerships. Today, I am pleased to announce that Kourosh Karimkhany
will
step into this role on March 30, 2015.
Kourosh will be responsible for crafting a strategy to grow long-term
value
for Wikimedia projects through building meaningful partnerships,
projects,
and relationships on behalf of the Wikimedia Foundation. He will
become
part of the C-level team and will report to Lisa Gruwell. Kourosh
will
also
oversee Wikipedia Zero, which will transition to the partnerships
team.
The Wikimedia community has many fruitful and creative partnerships
that
help support knowledge creation and sharing around the world. The partnerships Kourosh will support will will help us better support
these
partnerships and your work, as well as grow strategic initiatives we
take
on at the WMF.
Kourosh was born in Iran and moved to the U.S. as a child with his
family.
Today, he is an experienced digital media professional with a passion
for
sharing information with the world. He started his career as a
technology
journalist covering Silicon Valley for Bloomberg, Reuters and
Wired.
He
switched to the business side of media when he joined Yahoo as senior producer of Yahoo News. Later, he led corporate development at Conde
Nast
where he spearheaded the acquisition of Wired.com, Ars Technica and
Reddit.
He also cofounded Food Republic in 2009, which was acquired in
He's
an active angel investor and startup advisor.
In light of the expanded scope of the Fundraising team and the
revamped
partnerships team, we’re changing the team's name to better reflect
their
mission. The new name is the Advancement Department. To learn more
about
the new role, visit the FAQ here: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WMF_Partnerships_FAQ
Please join me in welcoming Kourosh as the newest member of the WMF leadership team. We have many exciting projects in 2015 and I’m
looking
forward to all the great things we will accomplish as we work
together
to
support our mission.
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