I don't think it is very helpful to the discussions that have to be had to turn this into a conversation about personal qualifications... Only rarely I have seen such a discussion to bear fruit.
The people on the Committee is only a small factor in the whole puzzle - the instructions they get, the process and the number of applications has at least a similar impact. Let us first discuss what (if anything) should be different in the process, in the outcomes, before we even start discussing the people.
Thanks!
Lodewijk
On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 4:50 PM, Dariusz Jemielniak darekj@alk.edu.pl wrote:
Balazs,
if you read the link you've just provided, you'd probably notice e.g. the following sentence: "He also has served on the Funds Dissemination Committee of the "English Teaching" program (aimed at improving language skills of English teachers in rural areas of Poland) coordinated by Fundacja Nida from the funds of Polish-American Freedom Foundation over the last 8+ years".
On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 4:40 PM, Balázs Viczián < balazs.viczian@wikimedia.hu
wrote:
Dariusz, as you said: it is not on your public FDC profile.
How should I know all of this about you if it is completely missing from there?
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG/Funds_Dissemination_Committee/Memb...
Vince
2014-11-25 15:13 GMT, Dariusz Jemielniak darekj@alk.edu.pl:
we're clearly looking at different pages. My description indicates 8
years
of sitting on a funds dissemination committee of Nida Foundation. It is true that I have not listed my experience on Kopernik Science Center
Board,
or Interkl@sa, even though I did at the point of candidacy to the FDC.
If exactly such experience (sitting on the committee distributing
funds)
does not count, I am not certain what can satisfy your requirements.
Additionally, I believe that your argument is flawed. True, we do need people with such experience on the FDC, but just as equally we need
people
with experience from chapter boards, for instance.
best,
dariusz "pundit"
On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 3:56 PM, Balázs Viczián <
balazs.viczian@gmail.com>
wrote:
Dariusz, I do not feel it is ungrounded at all.
If you read carefully, all FDC members (including you) are talking
about
writing grants (if any), none has written in their profile that they
had
any specific experience in _reviewing_ them.
To keep it simple, I bet you as a professor know the difference
between
writing tests and reviewing tests written by others :)
Vince
2014-11-25 13:25 GMT+00:00 Dariusz Jemielniak darekj@alk.edu.pl:
yes, that I understood, I just believe that your statement that that members of the FDC initially had zero or minimal experience needed
for
bodies of this sort is basically ungrounded :)
best,
dj
On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 2:09 PM, Balázs Viczián <balazs.viczian@gmail.com
wrote:
Hi,
"initial" was meant to refer to the times when the FDC (and its preceding processes) were set up. Sorry if I was misunderstandable.
Vince
2014-11-25 13:00 GMT+00:00 Dariusz Jemielniak darekj@alk.edu.pl:
> I mean 50 thousand, which positions the organization I ran at the > level > of > really small chapters in our movement. > > I do not understand your point about stakeholders at all. Are you > assuming > that the FDC is acting as a WMF proxy? We are an independent, > community-ran body advising to the Board (which, again IS NOT the > Foundation). > > Additionally, we as the FDC, do not require external funding, so
your
> further argument is even more confusing. We're only advising to get
it
> whenever possible, but absolutely accept (a) explanations why it
isn't
> just > as well as (b) failed attempts. > > best, > > dj "pundit" > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 1:49 PM, Ilario Valdelli <
valdelli@gmail.com
> wrote: > > > ~50k means 50.000 Euros or 500.000 Euros? > > > > The value is important because cutting 20% or 30% in biggest
budget
> means > > to justify that to the stakeholders. > > > > The model that FDC is bringing to the chapters is more complex
than
> > previously because the chapters have to find external funds. > > > > This means that the group of stakeholders has to be enlarged (a > > lot). > > > > I would give you the definition of stakeholders from ITIL: "those > > individuals or groups that have an interest in an organization, > service or > > project and are potentially interested or engaged in the
activities,
> > resources, targets or deliverables". > > > > WMF is one stakeholders. > > > > The submitters of a project are stakeholders, the members of the > > associations are stakeholders, the editor of Wikimedia projects
are
> > stakeholders and so on. > > > > In this case the FDC cannot evaluate the strategy of a chapter > because WMF > > is *one of the stakeholders*. > > > > And WMF cannot say that a chapter has not a strategy because a > decision > > like this generates as consequence a complete review of the
strategy
> in > > order to attract stakeholders. > > > > Basically if WMF is asking to find external funds to reduce the > > risk, > the > > consequence is that WMF is also declaring to would be a
stakeholder
> with > > less importance and less impact in the decision of the strategy
of
> > the > > chapter. > > > > This is not my personal opinion, it's an evident consequence of > biggest > > budget. > > > > regards > > > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 12:43 PM, Dariusz Jemielniak < > darekj@alk.edu.pl> > > wrote: > > > > > Hi Balazs, > > > > > > I'm quite puzzled and wondering what are you basing your
opinion
> > > of > the > > FDC > > > members' zero initial experience. I can speak only for myself,
but
> I was > > an > > > ED of an NGO for 6 years (and successfully applied for grants
and
> ran a > > > ~50k annual budget), and I've been on the funds dissemination > > > board > for > > > > > > best, > > > > > > dariusz "pundit" > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 12:05 PM, Balázs Viczián < > > > balazs.viczian@wikimedia.hu> wrote: > > > > > > > In regards to the original problem brought up by Gerard, FDC
is
> more > > > > or less on its maximum I think. > > > > > > > > Its members never did such (or similar) job(s) before FDC
(the
> closest > > > > would be credit checks, but that is like and IEG grant
review -
> it is > > > > pretty far from such a comprehensive grant - technically a > > > > full "business plan" - review) > > > > > > > > Despite the little to zero initial experience of its members, > > > > all-volunteer setup and the ever changing circumstances
(global
> goals, > > > > focus points, etc.) and how in general awful it sounds if you > > > > say > it > > > > out lout that an all-amateur (in the good sense) and > > > > inexperienced > > > > group of people are handling > > > > out USD 6 million every year in their free time and for free,
it
> works > > > > pretty well. > > > > > > > > Not perfect but you can not demand or expect perfection from > > > > such > a > > > setup. > > > > > > > > That is why there is a whole process now to correct the
mistakes
> that > > > > arise from this "non-professional system", including a
dedicated
> > > > ombudsperson for the case(s). > > > > > > > > I think this is fair enough, the quality of the reviews are > visibly > > > > improving from year to year and for the first time there is a > > > > real > > > > possibility to fix the mistakes and errors made, like the > > > > "incoherentness" of reviews. > > > > > > > > Things from this point could be better only through radical > changes to > > > > the system imo. > > > > > > > > Balazs > > > > > > > > 2014-11-25 9:41 GMT, Ilario Valdelli valdelli@gmail.com: > > > > > In my opinion the work of the FDC cannot be limited to
compare
> three > > > > years, > > > > > to evaluate three budgets and to evaluate three impacts. > > > > > > > > > > I would say that it's *out of context*. > > > > > > > > > > I have had this feeling when I have read that the FDC
consider
> that > > > > Amical > > > > > is the best example to follow. > > > > > > > > > > How "to follow"? Amical operates in a different context
than
> other > > > > > chapters. The question that a good example can be *cloned*
is
> > > > surrealistic. > > > > > > > > > > Ok, nothing to say but: > > > > > a) Amical operates in small community where the language
is a
> strong > > > glue > > > > > within the community > > > > > b) Amical has a strong inter-relation Wikimedia projects = > > organization > > > > > c) Amical has no big internal conflicts generated by
external
> > > > > or > > > internal > > > > > questions (may be the opposite) > > > > > d) the territory where Amical operates is relatively small > > > > > > > > > > A good example to compare Amical is with Wikimedia Israel. > > > > > > > > > > I would not speak in the specific case of WM DE but I
suggest
> to look > > > in > > > > > the history of the German projects and in the German
chapter
> and to > > > check > > > > > how many external decisions have had an impact in the
German
> > community > > > to > > > > > generate a bias. I don't think that these decisions have
been
> > > > > a > good > > > > > solution to improve the community participation to the > > > > > projects. > > > > > > > > > > What I see is that the numbers of editors is decreasing a
lot
> in the > > > > > biggest projects. > > > > > > > > > > It may be caused by a wrong strategy where is privileged
the
> > diversity > > > > and > > > > > the Global South but without paying attention that the > historical > > > > > communities and to the "usual" editors. May be I am wrong
but
> there > > are > > > > > more online projects becoming attractive for the
"potential"
> editors > > > and > > > > > the change of the target is not producing a real impact. > > > > > > > > > > So it's not a question of comparison of three budget. > > > > > > > > > > If the problem is critical the solution to limit the > > > > > decreasing > is > > not > > > > > beneficial. > > > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Il 24/Nov/2014 19:14 "Sydney Poore" <
sydney.poore@gmail.com>
> > > > > ha > > > scritto: > > > > > > > > > >> Hi Patrik, > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> During this round of the FDC evaluating the requests, the > majority > > of > > > > the > > > > >> organizations that we were looking at had submitted
requests
> to the > > > FDC > > > > >> for > > > > >> the past 3 years. While we have seen improvement around > strategic > > > > >> planning, > > > > >> budget planning and evaluation, there is still a great
amount
> of > > room > > > > for > > > > >> improvement from everyone in the wikimedia movement > > > > >> (including > the > > > WMF.) > > > > >> > > > > >> If you read the recommendations, FDC is primarily asking
the
> largest > > > > >> organizations to re-evaluate their current capacity to > > > > >> deliver > > impact > > > to > > > > >> the movement in line with the funds that they are using.
In
> many > > > > instances > > > > >> it involves looking at the organizations overall capacity
to
> develop > > > and > > > > >> execute a strategic plan. Because the FDC is making > recommendations > > > > about > > > > >> unrestricted funds, rather than focusing on a specific > > > > >> project > or > > > > program, > > > > >> often the reductions in funds is linked to concerns about
an
> > > > organizations > > > > >> capacity to grow (eg., hire and manage more staff, do more > > complicated > > > > >> projects.) > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> Warm regards, > > > > >> > > > > >> Sydney Poore > > > > >> User:FloNight > > > > >> Member FDC > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > __________________________ > > > prof. dr hab. Dariusz Jemielniak > > > kierownik katedry Zarządzania Międzynarodowego > > > i centrum badawczego CROW > > > Akademia Leona Koźmińskiego > > > http://www.crow.alk.edu.pl > > > > > > członek Akademii Młodych Uczonych Polskiej Akademii Nauk > > > członek Komitetu Polityki Naukowej MNiSW > > > > > > Wyszła pierwsza na świecie etnografia Wikipedii "Common
Knowledge?
> An > > > Ethnography of Wikipedia" (2014, Stanford University Press)
mojego
> > > autorstwa http://www.sup.org/book.cgi?id=24010 > > > > > > Recenzje > > > Forbes: http://www.forbes.com/fdc/welcome_mjx.shtml > > > Pacific Standard: > > > > > >
http://www.psmag.com/navigation/books-and-culture/killed-wikipedia-93777/
> > > Motherboard: > > http://motherboard.vice.com/read/an-ethnography-of-wikipedia > > > The Wikipedian: > > > >
http://thewikipedian.net/2014/10/10/dariusz-jemielniak-common-knowledge
> > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Ilario Valdelli > > Wikimedia CH > > Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens > > Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre > > Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera > > Switzerland - 8008 Zürich > > Wikipedia: Ilario https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Ilario > > Skype: valdelli > > Facebook: Ilario Valdelli https://www.facebook.com/ivaldelli > > Twitter: Ilario Valdelli https://twitter.com/ilariovaldelli > > Linkedin: Ilario Valdelli < > http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=6724469 > > > > > Tel: +41764821371 > > http://www.wikimedia.ch > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > , > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > > -- > > __________________________ > prof. dr hab. Dariusz Jemielniak > kierownik katedry Zarządzania Międzynarodowego > i centrum badawczego CROW > Akademia Leona Koźmińskiego > http://www.crow.alk.edu.pl > > członek Akademii Młodych Uczonych Polskiej Akademii Nauk > członek Komitetu Polityki Naukowej MNiSW > > Wyszła pierwsza na świecie etnografia Wikipedii "Common Knowledge?
An
> Ethnography of Wikipedia" (2014, Stanford University Press) mojego > autorstwa http://www.sup.org/book.cgi?id=24010 > > Recenzje > Forbes: http://www.forbes.com/fdc/welcome_mjx.shtml > Pacific Standard: > >
http://www.psmag.com/navigation/books-and-culture/killed-wikipedia-93777/
> Motherboard: > http://motherboard.vice.com/read/an-ethnography-of-wikipedia > The Wikipedian: >
http://thewikipedian.net/2014/10/10/dariusz-jemielniak-common-knowledge
> _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > <
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/GuidelinesWikimedia-l@lists.wi...
> Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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>
--
prof. dr hab. Dariusz Jemielniak kierownik katedry Zarządzania Międzynarodowego i centrum badawczego CROW Akademia Leona Koźmińskiego http://www.crow.alk.edu.pl
członek Akademii Młodych Uczonych Polskiej Akademii Nauk członek Komitetu Polityki Naukowej MNiSW
Wyszła pierwsza na świecie etnografia Wikipedii "Common Knowledge? An Ethnography of Wikipedia" (2014, Stanford University Press) mojego autorstwa http://www.sup.org/book.cgi?id=24010
Recenzje Forbes: http://www.forbes.com/fdc/welcome_mjx.shtml Pacific Standard:
http://www.psmag.com/navigation/books-and-culture/killed-wikipedia-93777/
Motherboard: http://motherboard.vice.com/read/an-ethnography-of-wikipedia The Wikipedian:
http://thewikipedian.net/2014/10/10/dariusz-jemielniak-common-knowledge
--
prof. dr hab. Dariusz Jemielniak kierownik katedry Zarządzania Międzynarodowego i centrum badawczego CROW Akademia Leona Koźmińskiego http://www.crow.alk.edu.pl
członek Akademii Młodych Uczonych Polskiej Akademii Nauk członek Komitetu Polityki Naukowej MNiSW
Wyszła pierwsza na świecie etnografia Wikipedii "Common Knowledge? An Ethnography of Wikipedia" (2014, Stanford University Press) mojego autorstwa http://www.sup.org/book.cgi?id=24010
Recenzje Forbes: http://www.forbes.com/fdc/welcome_mjx.shtml Pacific Standard:
http://www.psmag.com/navigation/books-and-culture/killed-wikipedia-93777/
Motherboard:
http://motherboard.vice.com/read/an-ethnography-of-wikipedia
The Wikipedian:
http://thewikipedian.net/2014/10/10/dariusz-jemielniak-common-knowledge
--
prof. dr hab. Dariusz Jemielniak kierownik katedry Zarządzania Międzynarodowego i centrum badawczego CROW Akademia Leona Koźmińskiego http://www.crow.alk.edu.pl
członek Akademii Młodych Uczonych Polskiej Akademii Nauk członek Komitetu Polityki Naukowej MNiSW
Wyszła pierwsza na świecie etnografia Wikipedii "Common Knowledge? An Ethnography of Wikipedia" (2014, Stanford University Press) mojego autorstwa http://www.sup.org/book.cgi?id=24010
Recenzje Forbes: http://www.forbes.com/fdc/welcome_mjx.shtml Pacific Standard: http://www.psmag.com/navigation/books-and-culture/killed-wikipedia-93777/ Motherboard: http://motherboard.vice.com/read/an-ethnography-of-wikipedia The Wikipedian: http://thewikipedian.net/2014/10/10/dariusz-jemielniak-common-knowledge _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe