On Sat, May 24, 2014 at 8:51 AM, ENWP Pine deyntestiss@hotmail.com wrote:
I will say, in Lila's defense, that I've been impressed with what I've seen of her in public. (:
However, Wil, I agree with points others have made. I'm concerned that you're going to create drama with what you're doing here, and make Lila's and WMF's jobs more complicated. I am assuming good faith that you are well-intentioned, but I am worried, not so much for your sake but for the community's, Lila's, and WMF's.
I will just add a little to Pine's comments here.
The way the Wikimedia movement has developed, we've ended up with some prominent fora that tend to be high-drama and low-effectiveness. Even this list has a fairly low signal-to-noise ratio most of the time, as in many threads the people with real insights into a situation tend not to post for one reason or another, while people with axes to grind do so far more.
If you want to explore the Wikimedia movement then absolutely great, but there are better ways to do it! Pine's suggestions are a good start - also, there are various conferences and events, I think there's one in the USA coming up, then Wikimania in London in a few months.
Also, just a word about free speech. If you or someone close to you is in a leadership position, then you have responsibilities - either to them, or to the organisation, or to both. I'm a bit concerned that if conversations like this one keep going, then when Lila comes out of "watch and listen" mode, the first thing she's going to hear from this list is a bunch of questions about you.
I think one of the main learning points for the Foundation over the last few years is that there is only a certain amount of "oxygen" in the community for thought and discussion. If I were you I'd do Lila the favour of making sure that she can use as much of that oxygen as she wants, and limit the amount you're taking for yourself.
Kind regards, and look forward to meeting you sometime,
Chris
I would like to show you some options for places where the style of conversation you are using would be a better fit, where you can ask questions and have discussions, and which are less politically sensitive than this list is. Of course you are welcome on this list if you have cross-wiki suggestions or can't get questions answered elsewhere, and I respect your right to free speech, but I would ask you to consider these suggestions.
On English Wikipedia, you will find friendly and helpful people at our Teahouse. [1] For questions and realtime help you can also visit #wikipedia-en-help on Freenode IRC.
If you want to get to know Wikipedians, I suggest that you join local volunteer meetups such Wiknic if there is one in your area. In those circumstances most people are happy to socialize. [2] If you are able to attend WikiConference USA in New York, I think you would enjoy it. [3]
If you want to have electronic conversations that are more chatty and less formal than the discussions on this list, I suggest IRC. #wikipedia-en is a high profile channel and many of the questions that you asked here could be discussed in there. And as I said above, for realtime help you can visit #wikipedia-en-help. However, I ask as a personal favor that you don't have conversations in #wikimedia-office which is the main WMF channel. I can't stop you from talking there any more than I can take away your free speech rights, but I think any communications in there from you would create more complications.
I feel it's ok for you or any Wikipedian in good standing to talk on WO if they want, but engaging in semi-official diplomacy is a very different matter, if that's what you're doing (I haven't checked your edits and I don't want to). There may come a time when you have the community's trust and can act in high-profile ways with the support of the community, but at the moment the discussion on this email list tells me that your actions are creating complications to the start of Lila's tenure in ways that have me worried. To use an analogy, imagine Michelle Obama saying in public that her personal opinion is that Barack Obama should have diplomatic talks with <insert hostile country here> or revoke <insert executive order here>, or that she personally has been conducting outreach to <insert hostile country here> without going through the State Department. That would create complications for Barack Obama and lots of other people, even though Michelle has a right to communicate her views.
I am available to answer questions if you have any for me. You can ask on my Meta talk page, on my English Wikipedia talk page, through email, or set up a time to meet me on IRC or Skype. I'm sure other participants in this discussion would also be willing to talk with you in places other than this list.
If I have misunderstood your position please correct me. I appreciate your interest in Wikipedia and I hope you will be a net positive to the community. (:
Pine
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Teahouse [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wicnik [3] http://wikiconferenceusa.org/wiki/Main_Page
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