Hoi,
Given that it is pathetically easy to opt out of the MultimediaViewer, the
amount of vitriol spouted by some is way out of proportion to the problem.
If you do not want it, opt out. But thermonuclear was was threatened,
people were to lose their job over this.
No the excuses are too little and too late. When people think that the
change is not good for them opt out. What was said was a disgrace. It has
never been in doubt that problems would be tackled.
Finally do not expect that much maintenance will be done on what is so
lightly discarded. It is fine for you to stay with your "Internet 6".
Improvements and subsequent development is just not for you.
Thanks,
GerardM
On 25 August 2014 05:19, Pine W <wiki.pine(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I have heard very few people say "don't ever
change the interface." I have
heard people say "don't force an interface change on me that I don't think
is an improvement."
VE was a good example. The sentiment of the community wasn't that VE''s
concept is wrong, it's that the implementation and rollout had major
deficiencies.
The MV issue is larger than than the usual editor-focused interface change
because it impacts readers as well as editors, and there were issues with
the display of licenses to readers. Personally I feel that the MV issues
are fixable but the rollout should have been handled differently, and I am
glad that the community and WMF both want to avoid repeating rollout
problems again and again.
Pine
On Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 4:48 AM, Gerard Meijssen <
gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Hoi,
In the metrics meeting, a presentation was given that showed that mobile
editing is really starting to happen. It is happening to the extend where
new editors are predominantly mobile editors.
When I asked my question "do we need to keep you happy" I specifically
targeted the vitriolic parts of our community. In my experience it it the
part that is conservative, not willing to listen, not open to change and
not willing to consider what is important to others.At Wikimania one of
the
presenters indicated that he was willing to
contribute to Wikidata. This
was not accepted because "someone in the community is really involved in
this subject and he had to have a say". This was one major person
probably
walking away for ever who is hugely important in
science and open data.
The
user interface for selecting fonts is abysmal
because the "community"
decided that what was implemented looked cluttered. Only seven percent of
the world population is dyslexic and they do NOT find Wikipedia easier to
read as a result.
Really, what is important to some people in the "community" is not
necessarily beneficial at all. The lack of conversation the ease of
making
demands and not appreciating that our aim is to
"share in the sum of all
knowledge" means that many retarded points of view abound.
Erik indicated that he is willing to talk and come to a workable
compromise. However, we do need change and we need it badly. When this is
not understood, I am sorry to say, those who fail to understand this are
a
problem, a problem that is increasingly
cancelling out their future
value.
Thanks,
Gerard
On 24 August 2014 12:49, Dariusz Jemielniak <darekj(a)alk.edu.pl> wrote:
hi,
On Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 11:07 AM, Gerard Meijssen <
gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com
wrote:
>
> Now what do we aim to achieve? Keeping you happy or making sure we
have a
> > public ???
> >
>
> simply put: both. We need readers just as much as we need the free
labor
of
> editors/volunteers.
>
> I don't think it makes any sense to have a discussion about the "wasted
> millions". First, in software development there is always some
inevitable
> waste, just because of the nature of this
endeavor. Second, many
projects
> which start with mixed reception are getting
better (and I have high
hope
> that the visual editor is one of them!).
Third, for an IT organization
of
> this caliber and traffic, as well as the
budget, there are impressive
> results in many areas (including, but not limited to, mobile website -
at
least for
viewers, as editing is a different story).
The real problem here, in my view, is creating an organizational
framework
that will allow to incorporate the community much
more into planning,
early
development, alpha and beta testing, and finally
implementation of all
new
features and tools (in a way which does not rely
on IT schedules only,
but
also on feedback from the communities). It is up
to WMF to create and
provide such framework, as our community as a whole does not have any
institutionalized representation or voice (which is part of the issue;
one
the one hand it is easy to discard whatever
people from the community
say,
as they are random individuals, and on the other
it must be deeply
frustrating to never be sure what the community reaction will be). Some
people are suggesting stewards as the good group to start with - I'm
afraid
stewards are not the best ones to go to. Stewards
act mainly as highly
trusted, experienced individuals. They do not represent their local
communities in any way. Also, they do not necessarily have the best
skills
> for the task, and they do not form a cooperating team, in general.
>
> One of the unbearable signs of bureaucracy is setting up committees,
but
> here a volunteer-driven, democratic task
force could actually make some
> sense, perhaps. Look at it this way - we elect admins, crats,
checkusers,
oversighters, stewards. All these roles are only technical. Perhaps at
some
> point we should think of community representation as well (and not in
the
sense of
leadership, but in the sense of liaisons, testers, people
responsible for smoother communication).
My experience within the FDC has shown that volunteer-driven bodies are
quite effective at such tasks, when provided with necessary
organizational
support.
best,
dariusz "pundit"
--
__________________________
prof. dr hab. Dariusz Jemielniak
kierownik katedry Zarządzania Międzynarodowego
i centrum badawczego CROW
Akademia Leona Koźmińskiego
http://www.crow.alk.edu.pl
członek Akademii Młodych Uczonych Polskiej Akademii Nauk
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>