Re: [Wikimedia-l] Cost of Wikimedia Conference 2014

2 Apr 2014

      I think the biggest challenge here is that there are dozens of movement
members who would be interested in attending this conference, but it is
intended to be a very limited one.  Several of the topics (Conflict of
Interest, Meet the Trustees, Lessons learnt on huge projects, How to
measure blood, sweat and tears, and particularly Reimagining movement
structures) are of interest to a much, much larger community than simply
the chapters/Thorgs. I'm still a bit baffled at having a session devoted to
Wikimania, since almost all of the attendees of the conference will be
attending Wikimania.
Indeed, if others besides the 2+1 representatives from chapters/thorgs are
permitted to attend, I would strongly urge that any additional
seats/participants be focused on movement members who work *outside* of the
formal structures.  It's pretty hard to come up with community-based
reimaginations of movement structures if you exclude those who aren't
already involved in existing movement structures. :-)
The WMF umbrella of projects, chapters, thorgs etc has not done a lot in
terms of leadership development.  I'll note, however, that the place where
leadership is most sorely lacking is on projects, while the majority of
those participating in leadership activities at the chapter/thorg level are
not doing a lot of work on WMF projects.  (That's a generalization, and
there are exceptions.)  It may be that either this conference needs to be
refocused, or it needs to be split into two separate conferences.  There is
definitely an audience out there for many of these same topics which is
being ignored completely.
Risker/Anne
On 2 April 2014 08:32, Jens Best jens.best@wikimedia.de wrote:
...
But if people who think that the 2+1-rule is questionable with good
arguments can't come to the conference because of the 2+1 rule the whole
thing becomes a bit difficult. Not everybody is keen on discussing such
things on mailinglists, especially when the decisions aren't made on such
lists, but on the conference itself.
I for my case really would have liked to come, mainly for listening live to
the discussions and get to know some people from other chapters. And as I
this year live in the city where the conference takes place, it would have
been possible with very few costs, too.
I really would like to see this aspect of the rules to be discussed on this
year's event because I also think that more people will represent the
bigger variety of the movement and still don't boost the event to a
happening where no serious discussion and fair international
decision-finding can be made because of overcrowding or overrepresentation
of some chapters.
Have a nice time in Berlin, maybe I will drop by on some of the evening
events at least. :)
Best regards
Jens
2014-04-02 13:37 GMT+02:00 Itzik Edri itzik@infra.co.il:
...
I less think this is question of budget (also, and I'm one of the big
criticizers of the movement travels expenses), and rather the question of
the concept of the conference.
Yes, people can achieve a lot from attending  in conferences - and we
don't
...
limit the number of people who can come to Wikimania, but ChapConf is not
Wikimania. It's another concept of conference, that happens every year
with
...
the same formula of representatives. If people think we need to change
it,
...
due the changes the movement passed over the past years, it's totally OK
and we are welcome to do so - but we should speak about it - together, no
by one side decision that haven't been notified to no one, at least no
publicly.
On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 2:17 PM, Steve Zhang cro0016@gmail.com wrote:
...
Hi Gerard,
My email is not to criticise the decision WMUK made to send more than
the
...
...
majority of chapters, but to  make my view (as I was asked off list my
view, and I think given the discussion it was worth sharing on-list)
that
...
...
regardless of whether the funds a chapter or organisation has at it's
disposable are infinitely small or infinitely limitless, the same
thought
...
...
process should be gone through when planning expenditure. Spend each
$1,000
...
like it's your last, essentially, consider if what it's planned to be
spent
...
on is the best value, and whether there would be more value in spending
it
...
on another project/item. When thats the case, then consider whether the
original proposed spending is worth it.
I recognise this hardly a universal view, nor do I expect others to
replace
...
their view with mine. It's not my place to question the actions of
board
...
...
members of other chapters, nor will I do so, but like others I felt
that
...
...
now was an appropriate time to convey my point of view on spending in
general, and I have now done so.
Looking forward to seeing all of you in Berlin :)
Steve
On 2 April 2014 21:54, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com
wrote:
...
...
Hoi,
There is a big difference between being frugal and being effective.
There
...
...
is no point to underspend when it affects effectivity in a negative
manner.
...
Yes, it is important that people are mindful of the sources of the
money
...
...
involved. This is as important for us as it is for a government where
the
...
...
donations are not given voluntary. More important as it is hardly
possible
...
to get an accounting from "civil" servants and we rely every year on
donations.
When one chapter has a budget and a plan, it is for them to exercise
that
...
...
plan. When another chapter or people in another chapter disagree,
they
...
...
can
...
say so. However, the argument for a large delegation has been made.
One
...
...
...
really important fact is that some people do not benefit from going
to
...
...
...
conferences. They do not make the connections, they do not get the
point.
...
...
When people know this applies to them, it is an excellent argument
for
...
...
them
...
not to go.
My experience is that going to conferences can be really effective.
There
...
...
are opportunities that are hard to get in any other setting. My
experience
...
is that people tend to be more approachable, more humane when I have
met
...
...
them. It really helps me in what I do.
Now Steve, why not address this. This is why money will be spend. It
is
...
...
...
realistic, effective and particularly for a new team a great
opportunity
...
to
...
get to know people. My mum would applaud money spend effectively.
Thanks,
      GerardM
On 2 April 2014 12:10, Steve Zhang cro0016@gmail.com wrote:
...
Hi all,
I'll just start off by saying these are my own personal views and
don't
...
...
...
necessarily represent the views of the rest of the WMAU committee
or
...
...
...
...
Wikimedia Australia as a whole.
My view on spending funds might be seen as a bit extreme, but I
believe
...
...
...
that funds received through the APG process or from money received
through
...
current or past annual WMF fundraisers is still donor money
, and that it does not belong to the relevant chapters
, and
as a result
we need to respect that when spending our
their
money.
Remember, most donations are less than $30 and come from everyday
people.
...
...
When I was planning a meetup in 2012, a
 good friend of mine
reminded me about "Grandma", and to keep in mind how Grandma would
feel
...
...
...
about how I spent their $30. I've kept this in mind ever since.
This is why I feel we should always be
frugal with the funds
that we have as a movement whenever possible, and question whether
the
...
...
...
proposed expenditure is really necessary. Also, how we use the
funds
...
we
...
...
as
...
chapters already have can help or hinder future requests for funds,
and
...
...
...
this is something I consider before signing off on a project or
expenditure.
I'm not one to criticise others for the decisions they've made, for
this
...

...
but I think the guideline 2+1 really should be adhered to by all,
and
...
...
...
would
...
wonder what value there is in sending more than this along to the
conference on the dime of the donor. If it's acceptable for large
chapters
...
with large reserves, it potentially puts smaller chapters at a
disadvantage
...
or could be perceived as bias.
With a week and a bit to go, it's not a time where this discussion
will
...
...
...
mean the arrangements already made for attendees will be changed,
but I
...
...
...
would hope that us as chapters would consider this more carefully
going
...
...
...
forward. Might be a worthy discussion topic in Berlin.
Steve Zhang
President - Wikimedia Australia
On 02/04/2014 9:27 am, "Itzik Edri" itzik@infra.co.il wrote:
...
Sorry Nicole, but I'm unhappy with your answer. You are right,
engagement
...
...
on other topics is needed, but this is not means people don't
have
...
...
the
...
...
...
right to ask questions and raise concerns.
We didn't have this discussions last year, as none of the chapter
sent
...
...
more
...
then 2+1. There were few people who came before to the Education
Meeting,
...
...
but the left and didn't attend the ChapConf. I think we deserve
to
...
...
know
...
...
why
...
this has been changed, and why no one notify or discussed about
it
...
...
...
...
before.
...
I was member of the location committee, and I'm definitely
remember
...
...
we
...
...
...
asked all the proposals to calculates the event costs by this
"rule"
...
of
...
...
...
number of representatives from each org. More than that, when we
decided
...
to
...
select Berlin, we even mentioned the fact that last years WMDE's
staff
...
...
and
...
board was widely around, "breaking" the equality we are looking
for,
...
...
and
...
...
asking to minimize WMDE's attendees to only what needed to run
the
...
...
...
...
...
conference.
WMDE did a great step toward open discussions about the goals and
the
...
...
...
...
program of the conference, so I find it strange they didn't
welcome,
...
or
...
...
...
willing to response such a crucial question that changed the
status
...
...
quo
...
...
we
...
been used to since the beginning so secretly.
On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 6:46 PM, Nicole Ebber <
nicole.ebber@wikimedia.de
...
...
>wrote:
> I am glad that 1,5 weeks before the conference, there is
finally
...
...
some
...
...
...
> activity showing up on the lists and the meta pages. I must
admit
...
...
...
that
...
...
> I would have really loved to see more engagement on topics like
> conference goals and themes, support for the programme team
regarding
...
...
...
> programme decisions, schedule and outcomes rather than having
the
...
...
...
same
...
...
> discussions on rules and logistics like every year before.
>
> There is still time (2 days) to give input to the schedule or
> volunteer as a speaker for some of the sessions. And most
importantly,
...
...
> to start discussing and taking position towards the conference
topics
...
...
...
> on-wiki and internally in our home organisations.
>
>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Conference_2014/Programme
...
...
...
>
> Everyone interested is very welcome to provide thoughts and
ideas.
...
We
...
...
...
> have three days full of exciting sessions, highly political
> discussions and fun ahead of us, let's make the best of it
together!
...
...
...
>
> I am looking forward to seeing so many of you next week in
Berlin!
...
...
...
...
>
> Best,
> Nicole
>
> On 1 April 2014 10:47, Gerard Meijssen <
gerard.meijssen@gmail.com>
...
...
...
...
wrote:
> > Hoi,
> > Money entrusted to a chapter is for that chapter to spend as
they
...
...
see
...
...
> fit.
> > The notion that it is money from the "public" is not a
license
...
...
for
...
...
...
> everyone
> > to meddle. There are people and places where such scrutiny is
best
...
...
...
> > expressed. When questions are asked, let them be questions
and
...
...
not
...
...
...
> implicit
> > condemnations.
> >
> > Fae can do whatever he likes. However, he should understand
that
...
...
as a
...
...
> > former chair it is best for the new team to move in its own
direction
...
...
and
> > not in the old direction. There is plenty that can be done
that
...
...
is
...
...
not
...
> > controversial.
> >
> > When formalities are used as arguments, you loose sight what
the
...
...
...
...
> > formalities are there for. It is best to "ignore all rules"
when
...
...
that
...
...
> gets
> > the job done in an effective way. The notion that because
somewhere
...
...
...
else
> in
> > "the movement" things have gone "wrong" does not justify the
current
...
...
> > criticism. A legitimate question could be "you are sending a
large
...
...
...
> > delegation, why is that". It is not legitimate to say "you
waste
...
...
...
money
...
by
> > sending people to a conference, why is that".
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> >       GerardM
> >
> >
> >
> > Op 31 mrt. 2014 16:44 schreef "Russavia" <
russavia.wikipedia@gmail.com
...
>:
> >
> >> Gerard, et al
> >>
> >> On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 9:59 PM, Gerard Meijssen
> >> gerard.meijssen@gmail.comwrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> > My point is very much that it is for the chapter to decide
if
...
...
they
...
...
> >> > spend their money wisely. It is for members of a chapter
to
...
...
...
...
question
...
> this
> >> > at an appropriate time and at an appropriate place.
> >>
> >>
> >> Might I make a point here.
> >>
> >> It is not "their money", but rather the money of donors --
i.e.
...
...
the
...
...
> general
> >> public -- who are every year told that Wikipedia needs your
help
...
...
to
...
...
> >> survive.
> >>
> >> The "movement", as you all like to refer to it, has a
tendency
...
...
to
...
...
...
waste
> >> money on frivolous things such as travel and accommodation,
as
...
...
...
...
...
> demonstrated
> >> last year by
> >>
http://twkozlowski.net/how-40k-dollars-turned-to-petty-cash/and
...
...
...
...
> >>
http://twkozlowski.net/saving-by-spending-according-to-affcom/
...
...
...
...
> >>
> >> The appropriate time to question such spending is BEFORE the
funds
...
...
is
...
> >> committed and spent. The place is unimportant, but here is
as
...
...
good
...
...
as
...
> any.
> >>
> >> As a member of "the movement", Fae has every right to ask
such
...
...
...
...
...
> questions,
> >> and I believe he also has the right to be able to ask such
questions
...
...
> >> without snide remarks such as "Really Fae, as you are no
longer
...
...
the
...
...
> chair,
> >> why rule "from the grave"?" being thrown at him .
Unfortunately,
...
...
...
there
...
> is a
> >> tendency in "the movement" when legitimate questions are
raised,
...
...
...
for a
...
> >> committed movementarian to deflect from that questioning
with
...
...
...
snide
...
...
> >> attacks.
> >>
> >> Now, Fae has asked some legit questions of UK chapter, and
it
...
is
...
...
...
only
...
> fair
> >> that they answer them.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> Russavia
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> >> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> >> Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
...
,
> >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
...
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
...
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
...
...
...
>
>
>
> --
> Nicole Ebber
> Leiterin Internationales
> Head of International Affairs
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963
Berlin
...
...
...
...
> Tel. +49 30 219158 26-0
>
> http://wikimedia.de
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien
Wissens
...
...
...
e.V.
...
...
> Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts
Berlin-Charlottenburg
...
...
...
> unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
> Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer
27/681/51985
...
.
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>
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web: http://www.wikimedia.de
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Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Cost of Wikimedia Conference 2014

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