Hoi,
There is a big difference between being frugal and being effective. There
is no point to underspend when it affects effectivity in a negative manner.
Yes, it is important that people are mindful of the sources of the money
involved. This is as important for us as it is for a government where the
donations are not given voluntary. More important as it is hardly possible
to get an accounting from "civil" servants and we rely every year on
donations.
When one chapter has a budget and a plan, it is for them to exercise that
plan. When another chapter or people in another chapter disagree, they can
say so. However, the argument for a large delegation has been made. One
really important fact is that some people do not benefit from going to
conferences. They do not make the connections, they do not get the point.
When people know this applies to them, it is an excellent argument for them
not to go.
My experience is that going to conferences can be really effective. There
are opportunities that are hard to get in any other setting. My experience
is that people tend to be more approachable, more humane when I have met
them. It really helps me in what I do.
Now Steve, why not address this. This is why money will be spend. It is
realistic, effective and particularly for a new team a great opportunity to
get to know people. My mum would applaud money spend effectively.
Thanks,
GerardM
On 2 April 2014 12:10, Steve Zhang <cro0016(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,
I'll just start off by saying these are my own personal views and don't
necessarily represent the views of the rest of the WMAU committee or
Wikimedia Australia as a whole.
My view on spending funds might be seen as a bit extreme, but I believe
that funds received through the APG process or from money received through
current or past annual WMF fundraisers is still donor money
, and that it does not belong to the relevant chapters
, and
as a result
we need to respect that when spending our
their
money.
Remember, most donations are less than $30 and come from everyday people.
When I was planning a meetup in 2012, a
good friend of mine
reminded me about "Grandma", and to keep in mind how Grandma would feel
about how I spent their $30. I've kept this in mind ever since.
This is why I feel we should always be
frugal with the funds
that we have as a movement whenever possible, and question whether the
proposed expenditure is really necessary. Also, how we use the funds we as
chapters already have can help or hinder future requests for funds, and
this is something I consider before signing off on a project or
expenditure.
I'm not one to criticise others for the decisions they've made, for this -
but I think the guideline 2+1 really should be adhered to by all, and would
wonder what value there is in sending more than this along to the
conference on the dime of the donor. If it's acceptable for large chapters
with large reserves, it potentially puts smaller chapters at a disadvantage
or could be perceived as bias.
With a week and a bit to go, it's not a time where this discussion will
mean the arrangements already made for attendees will be changed, but I
would hope that us as chapters would consider this more carefully going
forward. Might be a worthy discussion topic in Berlin.
Steve Zhang
President - Wikimedia Australia
On 02/04/2014 9:27 am, "Itzik Edri" <itzik(a)infra.co.il> wrote:
Sorry Nicole, but I'm unhappy with your
answer. You are right, engagement
on other topics is needed, but this is not means people don't have the
right to ask questions and raise concerns.
We didn't have this discussions last year, as none of the chapter sent
more
then 2+1. There were few people who came before
to the Education Meeting,
but the left and didn't attend the ChapConf. I think we deserve to know
why
this has been changed, and why no one notify or
discussed about it
before.
I was member of the location committee, and
I'm definitely remember we
asked all the proposals to calculates the event costs by this "rule" of
number of representatives from each org. More than that, when we decided
to
select Berlin, we even mentioned the fact that
last years WMDE's staff
and
board was widely around, "breaking" the
equality we are looking for, and
asking to minimize WMDE's attendees to only what needed to run the
conference.
WMDE did a great step toward open discussions about the goals and the
program of the conference, so I find it strange they didn't welcome, or
willing to response such a crucial question that changed the status quo
we
been used to since the beginning so secretly.
On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 6:46 PM, Nicole Ebber <nicole.ebber(a)wikimedia.de
wrote:
I am glad that 1,5 weeks before the conference,
there is finally some
activity showing up on the lists and the meta pages. I must admit that
I would have really loved to see more engagement on topics like
conference goals and themes, support for the programme team regarding
programme decisions, schedule and outcomes rather than having the same
discussions on rules and logistics like every year before.
There is still time (2 days) to give input to the schedule or
volunteer as a speaker for some of the sessions. And most importantly,
to start discussing and taking position towards the conference topics
on-wiki and internally in our home organisations.
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Conference_2014/Programme
Everyone interested is very welcome to provide thoughts and ideas. We
have three days full of exciting sessions, highly political
discussions and fun ahead of us, let's make the best of it together!
I am looking forward to seeing so many of you next week in Berlin!
Best,
Nicole
On 1 April 2014 10:47, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Hoi,
Money entrusted to a chapter is for that chapter to spend as they see
fit.
The notion that it is money from the
"public" is not a license for
everyone
to meddle. There are people and places where such
scrutiny is best
expressed. When questions are asked, let them be questions and not
implicit
> condemnations.
>
> Fae can do whatever he likes. However, he should understand that as a
> former chair it is best for the new team to move in its own direction
and
> > not in the old direction. There is plenty that can be done that is
not
controversial.
When formalities are used as arguments, you loose sight what the
formalities are there for. It is best to "ignore all rules" when that
gets
> the job done in an effective way. The notion that because somewhere
else
> in
> > "the movement" things have gone "wrong" does not justify
the current
> > criticism. A legitimate question could be "you are sending a large
> > delegation, why is that". It is not legitimate to say "you waste
money
by
> > sending people to a conference, why is that".
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > GerardM
> >
> >
> >
> > Op 31 mrt. 2014 16:44 schreef "Russavia" <
russavia.wikipedia(a)gmail.com
>:
> >
> >> Gerard, et al
> >>
> >> On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 9:59 PM, Gerard Meijssen
> >> <gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> > My point is very much that it is for the chapter to decide if they
> >> > spend their money wisely. It is for members of a chapter to
question
this
> > at an appropriate time and at an
appropriate place.
>
>
> Might I make a point here.
>
> It is not "their money", but rather the money of donors -- i.e. the
general
>> public -- who are every year told that Wikipedia needs your help to
>> survive.
>>
>> The "movement", as you all like to refer to it, has a tendency to
waste
> >> money on frivolous things such as travel and accommodation, as
> demonstrated
> >> last year by
> >>
http://twkozlowski.net/how-40k-dollars-turned-to-petty-cash/and
> >>
http://twkozlowski.net/saving-by-spending-according-to-affcom/
> >>
> >> The appropriate time to question such spending is BEFORE the funds
is
> >> committed and spent. The place is
unimportant, but here is as good
as
> any.
> >>
> >> As a member of "the movement", Fae has every right to ask such
> questions,
> >> and I believe he also has the right to be able to ask such questions
> >> without snide remarks such as "Really Fae, as you are no longer the
> chair,
> >> why rule "from the grave"?" being thrown at him .
Unfortunately,
there
> is a
> >> tendency in "the movement" when legitimate questions are raised,
for a
> >> committed movementarian to deflect
from that questioning with snide
> >> attacks.
> >>
> >> Now, Fae has asked some legit questions of UK chapter, and it is
only
> fair
> >> that they answer them.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> Russavia
> >> _______________________________________________
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Nicole Ebber
Leiterin Internationales
Head of International Affairs
Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin
Tel. +49 30 219158 26-0
http://wikimedia.de
Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
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