Following the recent outage, we've had a new series of complaints about the lack of improvements in CX, especially related to server-side activities like saving/publishing pages.
Now, I know the team is involved in a long-term effort to merge the editor with the VE, but is there an end in sight for that effort? Can I tell people who ask "look, 6 more months then we'll have a much better translation tool"?
Is there a publicly available roadmap for this project and more generally, for CX?
Thanks, Strainu
For clarification, are you referring to the Content Translation tool?
On April 26, 2017 at 10:56:28 PM, Strainu (strainu10@gmail.com) wrote:
Following the recent outage, we've had a new series of complaints about the lack of improvements in CX, especially related to server-side activities like saving/publishing pages.
Now, I know the team is involved in a long-term effort to merge the editor with the VE, but is there an end in sight for that effort? Can I tell people who ask "look, 6 more months then we'll have a much better translation tool"?
Is there a publicly available roadmap for this project and more generally, for CX?
Thanks, Strainu
_______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Yes, it's pretty clear that Strainu refers to Content Translation. "CX" is the most common abbreviation for it; see https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Content_translation/Documentation/FAQ#What_is... . Occasionally people say "CT", "CTT", "CXT", and other things, but "CX" is the most common, and as "official" as it gets.
I'll write a detailed reply to Strainu's question very soon; thanks for bringing this up.
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore
2017-04-27 8:57 GMT+03:00 James Hare jamesmhare@gmail.com:
For clarification, are you referring to the Content Translation tool?
On April 26, 2017 at 10:56:28 PM, Strainu (strainu10@gmail.com) wrote:
Following the recent outage, we've had a new series of complaints about the lack of improvements in CX, especially related to server-side activities like saving/publishing pages.
Now, I know the team is involved in a long-term effort to merge the editor with the VE, but is there an end in sight for that effort? Can I tell people who ask "look, 6 more months then we'll have a much better translation tool"?
Is there a publicly available roadmap for this project and more generally, for CX?
Thanks, Strainu
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
2017-04-27 8:55 GMT+03:00 Strainu strainu10@gmail.com:
Following the recent outage, we've had a new series of complaints about the lack of improvements in CX, especially related to server-side activities like saving/publishing pages.
Now, I know the team is involved in a long-term effort to merge the editor with the VE, but is there an end in sight for that effort? Can I tell people who ask "look, 6 more months then we'll have a much better translation tool"?
Is there a publicly available roadmap for this project and more generally, for CX?
Hi,
Thanks again for bringing this up.
Currently the Language team is indeed working on transitioning the editing component to VE. At the moment we are completing the rewrite of the frontend internals using OOjs UI and so using VE's special handling of edge cases. This is more than a refactoring—this will also improve the stability of several features such as saving and loading, paragraph alignment, and table handling.
We hope to complete the transition of the translation editing interface to VE in July–September 2017. This will not only change the interface itself, but will also bring in some of the most often requested CX features, such as the ability to add new categories, templates, and references using VE's existing tools rather than just adapt them, and to edit the translation using wiki syntax.
The next part to develop would be another round of improvement of template support. The previous iteration was done in the latter half of 2016, and allowed adapting a much wider array of templates, including infoboxes. However, one important kind of template that is not yet supported well enough is ones inside references (a.k.a. citations or footnotes), and this will be the focus of the next iteration. We also plan to improve CX’s template editor itself by allowing machine translation of template parameter values, and by fixing several outstanding bugs in it.
After finishing these two major projects, in early 2018 we expect to work on fixing various remaining bugs, after which we plan to start declaring Content Translation as non-beta in some languages. We are figuring out which bugs exactly will these be; the current list is at https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/project/view/2030/ , but it will likely change somewhat before we get there. (Suggestions about what should go there are welcome at any time.)
Finally, two further future directions that we are thinking about longer-term are: 1. Translation List: Shared and personal lists of articles awaiting translation ( https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T96147 ). We already have designs for it, but the implementation will have to wait until we fix the more urgent issues above. 2. Better support on mobile devices. This is complicated, but much-needed. Some early thoughts about this can be found at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Content_translation/Product_Definition/Mobile... , but there will need to be much more design and development around this.
You can see a more formal document about this here, although the content is largely the same: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Content_translation/Roadmap/2017%E2%80%932018
The Language team already had this more or less figured out a couple of months ago, but the publishing was delayed because of the higher-level planning process ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Annual_Plan/2017-2018/D... ).
2017-05-02 11:42 GMT+03:00 Amir E. Aharoni amir.aharoni@mail.huji.ac.il:
2017-04-27 8:55 GMT+03:00 Strainu strainu10@gmail.com:
Following the recent outage, we've had a new series of complaints about the lack of improvements in CX, especially related to server-side activities like saving/publishing pages.
Now, I know the team is involved in a long-term effort to merge the editor with the VE, but is there an end in sight for that effort? Can I tell people who ask "look, 6 more months then we'll have a much better translation tool"?
Is there a publicly available roadmap for this project and more generally, for CX?
Hi,
Thanks again for bringing this up.
Currently the Language team is indeed working on transitioning the editing component to VE. At the moment we are completing the rewrite of the frontend internals using OOjs UI and so using VE's special handling of edge cases. This is more than a refactoring—this will also improve the stability of several features such as saving and loading, paragraph alignment, and table handling.
We hope to complete the transition of the translation editing interface to VE in July–September 2017. This will not only change the interface itself, but will also bring in some of the most often requested CX features, such as the ability to add new categories, templates, and references using VE's existing tools rather than just adapt them, and to edit the translation using wiki syntax.
The next part to develop would be another round of improvement of template support. The previous iteration was done in the latter half of 2016, and allowed adapting a much wider array of templates, including infoboxes. However, one important kind of template that is not yet supported well enough is ones inside references (a.k.a. citations or footnotes), and this will be the focus of the next iteration. We also plan to improve CX’s template editor itself by allowing machine translation of template parameter values, and by fixing several outstanding bugs in it.
After finishing these two major projects, in early 2018 we expect to work on fixing various remaining bugs, after which we plan to start declaring Content Translation as non-beta in some languages. We are figuring out which bugs exactly will these be; the current list is at https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/project/view/2030/ , but it will likely change somewhat before we get there. (Suggestions about what should go there are welcome at any time.)
Thanks Amir!
Will these features be available all at once, or will they be deployed gradually?
Thanks, Strainu
Finally, two further future directions that we are thinking about longer-term are:
- Translation List: Shared and personal lists of articles awaiting
translation ( https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T96147 ). We already have designs for it, but the implementation will have to wait until we fix the more urgent issues above. 2. Better support on mobile devices. This is complicated, but much-needed. Some early thoughts about this can be found at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Content_translation/Product_Definition/Mobile... , but there will need to be much more design and development around this.
You can see a more formal document about this here, although the content is largely the same: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Content_translation/Roadmap/2017%E2%80%932018
The Language team already had this more or less figured out a couple of months ago, but the publishing was delayed because of the higher-level planning process ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Annual_Plan/2017-2018/D... ). _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Gradually.
The migration to OOJS, which should also resolve several bugs, is expected to be deployed in a few weeks, but we don't know the precise date.
The migration to VE will be done some time after that, in the second half of 2017. It will probably be another period during which there will be few visible deployments. See also https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Content_translation/V2 .
Then templates. This should be be a more agile process, with small improvements deployed frequently. Planned for late 2017.
Then everything else :)
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore
2017-05-02 15:10 GMT+03:00 Strainu strainu10@gmail.com:
2017-05-02 11:42 GMT+03:00 Amir E. Aharoni amir.aharoni@mail.huji.ac.il:
2017-04-27 8:55 GMT+03:00 Strainu strainu10@gmail.com:
Following the recent outage, we've had a new series of complaints about the lack of improvements in CX, especially related to server-side activities like saving/publishing pages.
Now, I know the team is involved in a long-term effort to merge the editor with the VE, but is there an end in sight for that effort? Can I tell people who ask "look, 6 more months then we'll have a much better translation tool"?
Is there a publicly available roadmap for this project and more generally, for CX?
Hi,
Thanks again for bringing this up.
Currently the Language team is indeed working on transitioning the
editing
component to VE. At the moment we are completing the rewrite of the frontend internals using OOjs UI and so using VE's special handling of
edge
cases. This is more than a refactoring—this will also improve the
stability
of several features such as saving and loading, paragraph alignment, and table handling.
We hope to complete the transition of the translation editing interface
to
VE in July–September 2017. This will not only change the interface
itself,
but will also bring in some of the most often requested CX features, such as the ability to add new categories, templates, and references using
VE's
existing tools rather than just adapt them, and to edit the translation using wiki syntax.
The next part to develop would be another round of improvement of
template
support. The previous iteration was done in the latter half of 2016, and allowed adapting a much wider array of templates, including infoboxes. However, one important kind of template that is not yet supported well enough is ones inside references (a.k.a. citations or footnotes), and
this
will be the focus of the next iteration. We also plan to improve CX’s template editor itself by allowing machine translation of template parameter values, and by fixing several outstanding bugs in it.
After finishing these two major projects, in early 2018 we expect to work on fixing various remaining bugs, after which we plan to start declaring Content Translation as non-beta in some languages. We are figuring out which bugs exactly will these be; the current list is at https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/project/view/2030/ , but it will
likely
change somewhat before we get there. (Suggestions about what should go there are welcome at any time.)
Thanks Amir!
Will these features be available all at once, or will they be deployed gradually?
Thanks, Strainu
Finally, two further future directions that we are thinking about longer-term are:
- Translation List: Shared and personal lists of articles awaiting
translation ( https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T96147 ). We already
have
designs for it, but the implementation will have to wait until we fix the more urgent issues above. 2. Better support on mobile devices. This is complicated, but
much-needed.
Some early thoughts about this can be found at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Content_translation/
Product_Definition/Mobile_exploration
, but there will need to be much more design and development around this.
You can see a more formal document about this here, although the content
is
largely the same: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Content_translation/
Roadmap/2017%E2%80%932018
The Language team already had this more or less figured out a couple of months ago, but the publishing was delayed because of the higher-level planning process ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_
Annual_Plan/2017-2018/Draft/Programs/Product
). _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Hello,
More than a year has passed since the email below and subjectively, editors are complaining just as much about not being able to save changes and other nuisances. Now, I know that wikipedians are not shy about expressing their discontent, but I also cannot overstate the impact CX can have for small and medium-sized communities.
Since the pages mentioned in Amir's email have not seen much action, I would like to ask for another update from the engineering team. Is CX still developed? Are small bug reports handled yet or are you still waiting for some big feature?
Thank you, Strainu
2017-05-02 11:42 GMT+03:00 Amir E. Aharoni amir.aharoni@mail.huji.ac.il:
2017-04-27 8:55 GMT+03:00 Strainu strainu10@gmail.com:
Following the recent outage, we've had a new series of complaints about the lack of improvements in CX, especially related to server-side activities like saving/publishing pages.
Now, I know the team is involved in a long-term effort to merge the editor with the VE, but is there an end in sight for that effort? Can I tell people who ask "look, 6 more months then we'll have a much better translation tool"?
Is there a publicly available roadmap for this project and more generally, for CX?
Hi,
Thanks again for bringing this up.
Currently the Language team is indeed working on transitioning the editing component to VE. At the moment we are completing the rewrite of the frontend internals using OOjs UI and so using VE's special handling of edge cases. This is more than a refactoring—this will also improve the stability of several features such as saving and loading, paragraph alignment, and table handling.
We hope to complete the transition of the translation editing interface to VE in July–September 2017. This will not only change the interface itself, but will also bring in some of the most often requested CX features, such as the ability to add new categories, templates, and references using VE's existing tools rather than just adapt them, and to edit the translation using wiki syntax.
The next part to develop would be another round of improvement of template support. The previous iteration was done in the latter half of 2016, and allowed adapting a much wider array of templates, including infoboxes. However, one important kind of template that is not yet supported well enough is ones inside references (a.k.a. citations or footnotes), and this will be the focus of the next iteration. We also plan to improve CX’s template editor itself by allowing machine translation of template parameter values, and by fixing several outstanding bugs in it.
After finishing these two major projects, in early 2018 we expect to work on fixing various remaining bugs, after which we plan to start declaring Content Translation as non-beta in some languages. We are figuring out which bugs exactly will these be; the current list is at https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/project/view/2030/ , but it will likely change somewhat before we get there. (Suggestions about what should go there are welcome at any time.)
Finally, two further future directions that we are thinking about longer-term are:
- Translation List: Shared and personal lists of articles awaiting
translation ( https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T96147 ). We already have designs for it, but the implementation will have to wait until we fix the more urgent issues above. 2. Better support on mobile devices. This is complicated, but much-needed. Some early thoughts about this can be found at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Content_translation/Product_Definition/Mobile... , but there will need to be much more design and development around this.
You can see a more formal document about this here, although the content is largely the same: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Content_translation/Roadmap/2017%E2%80%932018
The Language team already had this more or less figured out a couple of months ago, but the publishing was delayed because of the higher-level planning process ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Annual_Plan/2017-2018/D... ). _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
I'd like to tell too my concern too about CX : it has been pushed into production for several years, with a lot of unnecessary advertisements (I still get a popup inciting me to use it each time I try to look at a deleted page, while I have clearly disabled CX in the configuration) and with many problems in the articles created with it, which requires a lot of work from wiki gnomes to fix them... Bug reports are just put on the side (example T192582 https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T192582) with the reasoning that CX2 is coming, but it's been months/years and nothing seems to be in sight.
What's the actual roadmap ? A real one, not a wishlist... If CX2 is not going to be available soon, could you at least reduce the burden imposed on volunteers to fix the problems it creates by reducing ads, focusing on fixing problems...
On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 10:13 AM Strainu strainu10@gmail.com wrote:
Hello,
More than a year has passed since the email below and subjectively, editors are complaining just as much about not being able to save changes and other nuisances. Now, I know that wikipedians are not shy about expressing their discontent, but I also cannot overstate the impact CX can have for small and medium-sized communities.
Since the pages mentioned in Amir's email have not seen much action, I would like to ask for another update from the engineering team. Is CX still developed? Are small bug reports handled yet or are you still waiting for some big feature?
Thank you, Strainu
2017-05-02 11:42 GMT+03:00 Amir E. Aharoni amir.aharoni@mail.huji.ac.il:
2017-04-27 8:55 GMT+03:00 Strainu strainu10@gmail.com:
Following the recent outage, we've had a new series of complaints about the lack of improvements in CX, especially related to server-side activities like saving/publishing pages.
Now, I know the team is involved in a long-term effort to merge the editor with the VE, but is there an end in sight for that effort? Can I tell people who ask "look, 6 more months then we'll have a much better translation tool"?
Is there a publicly available roadmap for this project and more generally, for CX?
Hi,
Thanks again for bringing this up.
Currently the Language team is indeed working on transitioning the
editing
component to VE. At the moment we are completing the rewrite of the frontend internals using OOjs UI and so using VE's special handling of
edge
cases. This is more than a refactoring—this will also improve the
stability
of several features such as saving and loading, paragraph alignment, and table handling.
We hope to complete the transition of the translation editing interface
to
VE in July–September 2017. This will not only change the interface
itself,
but will also bring in some of the most often requested CX features, such as the ability to add new categories, templates, and references using
VE's
existing tools rather than just adapt them, and to edit the translation using wiki syntax.
The next part to develop would be another round of improvement of
template
support. The previous iteration was done in the latter half of 2016, and allowed adapting a much wider array of templates, including infoboxes. However, one important kind of template that is not yet supported well enough is ones inside references (a.k.a. citations or footnotes), and
this
will be the focus of the next iteration. We also plan to improve CX’s template editor itself by allowing machine translation of template parameter values, and by fixing several outstanding bugs in it.
After finishing these two major projects, in early 2018 we expect to work on fixing various remaining bugs, after which we plan to start declaring Content Translation as non-beta in some languages. We are figuring out which bugs exactly will these be; the current list is at https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/project/view/2030/ , but it will
likely
change somewhat before we get there. (Suggestions about what should go there are welcome at any time.)
Finally, two further future directions that we are thinking about longer-term are:
- Translation List: Shared and personal lists of articles awaiting
translation ( https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T96147 ). We already
have
designs for it, but the implementation will have to wait until we fix the more urgent issues above. 2. Better support on mobile devices. This is complicated, but
much-needed.
Some early thoughts about this can be found at
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Content_translation/Product_Definition/Mobile...
, but there will need to be much more design and development around this.
You can see a more formal document about this here, although the content
is
largely the same:
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Content_translation/Roadmap/2017%E2%80%932018
The Language team already had this more or less figured out a couple of months ago, but the publishing was delayed because of the higher-level planning process (
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Annual_Plan/2017-2018/D...
). _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
The page about version 2 should provide more details on the work done and planned in that front: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Content_translation/V2
Replacing the underlying editing surface requires important efforts to make the different tools to work with the new surface. In order not to affect existing editors that rely on Content Translation, we started version 2 as a parallel track, and we are focusing our efforts to improve the new version (which also means that only the most critical updates are made to version 1) to make it available as soon as possible. Version 2 can be tested today (more details in the previous link), and will be exposed gradually to more users as it is ready to replace version 1.
Pau
On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 10:21 AM Nicolas Vervelle nvervelle@gmail.com wrote:
I'd like to tell too my concern too about CX : it has been pushed into production for several years, with a lot of unnecessary advertisements (I still get a popup inciting me to use it each time I try to look at a deleted page, while I have clearly disabled CX in the configuration) and with many problems in the articles created with it, which requires a lot of work from wiki gnomes to fix them... Bug reports are just put on the side (example T192582 https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T192582) with the reasoning that CX2 is coming, but it's been months/years and nothing seems to be in sight.
What's the actual roadmap ? A real one, not a wishlist... If CX2 is not going to be available soon, could you at least reduce the burden imposed on volunteers to fix the problems it creates by reducing ads, focusing on fixing problems...
On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 10:13 AM Strainu strainu10@gmail.com wrote:
Hello,
More than a year has passed since the email below and subjectively, editors are complaining just as much about not being able to save changes and other nuisances. Now, I know that wikipedians are not shy about expressing their discontent, but I also cannot overstate the impact CX can have for small and medium-sized communities.
Since the pages mentioned in Amir's email have not seen much action, I would like to ask for another update from the engineering team. Is CX still developed? Are small bug reports handled yet or are you still waiting for some big feature?
Thank you, Strainu
2017-05-02 11:42 GMT+03:00 Amir E. Aharoni <amir.aharoni@mail.huji.ac.il :
2017-04-27 8:55 GMT+03:00 Strainu strainu10@gmail.com:
Following the recent outage, we've had a new series of complaints about the lack of improvements in CX, especially related to server-side activities like saving/publishing pages.
Now, I know the team is involved in a long-term effort to merge the editor with the VE, but is there an end in sight for that effort? Can I tell people who ask "look, 6 more months then we'll have a much better translation tool"?
Is there a publicly available roadmap for this project and more generally, for CX?
Hi,
Thanks again for bringing this up.
Currently the Language team is indeed working on transitioning the
editing
component to VE. At the moment we are completing the rewrite of the frontend internals using OOjs UI and so using VE's special handling of
edge
cases. This is more than a refactoring—this will also improve the
stability
of several features such as saving and loading, paragraph alignment,
and
table handling.
We hope to complete the transition of the translation editing interface
to
VE in July–September 2017. This will not only change the interface
itself,
but will also bring in some of the most often requested CX features,
such
as the ability to add new categories, templates, and references using
VE's
existing tools rather than just adapt them, and to edit the translation using wiki syntax.
The next part to develop would be another round of improvement of
template
support. The previous iteration was done in the latter half of 2016,
and
allowed adapting a much wider array of templates, including infoboxes. However, one important kind of template that is not yet supported well enough is ones inside references (a.k.a. citations or footnotes), and
this
will be the focus of the next iteration. We also plan to improve CX’s template editor itself by allowing machine translation of template parameter values, and by fixing several outstanding bugs in it.
After finishing these two major projects, in early 2018 we expect to
work
on fixing various remaining bugs, after which we plan to start
declaring
Content Translation as non-beta in some languages. We are figuring out which bugs exactly will these be; the current list is at https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/project/view/2030/ , but it will
likely
change somewhat before we get there. (Suggestions about what should go there are welcome at any time.)
Finally, two further future directions that we are thinking about longer-term are:
- Translation List: Shared and personal lists of articles awaiting
translation ( https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T96147 ). We already
have
designs for it, but the implementation will have to wait until we fix
the
more urgent issues above. 2. Better support on mobile devices. This is complicated, but
much-needed.
Some early thoughts about this can be found at
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Content_translation/Product_Definition/Mobile...
, but there will need to be much more design and development around
this.
You can see a more formal document about this here, although the
content
is
largely the same:
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Content_translation/Roadmap/2017%E2%80%932018
The Language team already had this more or less figured out a couple of months ago, but the publishing was delayed because of the higher-level planning process (
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Annual_Plan/2017-2018/D...
). _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org