Wikitech-l July 2003

wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org

71 participants
153 discussions

European language wiki's to own server+database.
by Jeroen 09 Jul '03

09 Jul '03

Hello, Proberly some of you will flame me, but I will take that for granted. My idea is to combine all the European language wikipedia's (except english and maybe spanish and portuguese) on one server and using one database, located somewhere in Europe. Here is why: * We will not be depending on the US anymore. - As this can be considered a political issue, it is mostly a technical issue. Because when there are problems, we (Europeans) can solve this on hours, people in the US are still at sleep. This also includes fixing things on location. - Also the performance will not be influenced by the English-language wikipedia. Problems: * Finding a reliable server that is free and only for us. * Finding European sysadmins for this server. Which wikipedias: # Basque (Euskara) # Bosnian (Bosanski) # Catalan (Català) # Czech (?eský) # Danish (Dansk) # Dutch (Nederlands) # Esperanto # Estonian (Eesti) # Finnish (Suomi) # French (Français) # Frisian (Frysk) # German (Deutsch) # Hungarian (Magyar) # Interlingua # Irish (Gaeilge) # Italian (Italiano) # Latin (Latina) # Latvian (Latviešu) # Lithuanian (Lietuviškai) # Low Saxon (Nedersächsisch) # Norwegian (Norsk) # Polish (Polska) (# Portuguese (Português) <<< Maybe not, because most speakers are living outside Europe) # Romanian (Român?) # Romanica # Russian (???????) # Serbocroatian (Srpskohrvatska) # Slovenian (Slovensko) (# Spanish (Castellano) <<< Maybe not, because most speakers are living outside Europe) # Swedish (Svenska) # Welsh (Cymraeg) Cheers, Jeroenvrp nl.wikipedia.org

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bug (or feauture) in "new articles" special page in es.wiki
by wiki pedista 09 Jul '03

09 Jul '03

Today I noticed that in the new pages listing, some titles are acompinied with the name of the first author, but the summary written by the last editor. Is this a bug or an intended behaviour? AstroNomer __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com

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Right-to-left language support
by Brion Vibber 09 Jul '03

09 Jul '03

Just a couple notes... I set up stub Arabic and Hebrew wikis: http://ar.wikipedia.org/ http://he.wikipedia.org/ When they get set up we'll need right-to-left also for other languages using these alphabets (Persian, Urdu, Yiddish...) I've made a few tweaks to help support this... Language::isRTL() should return true for those requiring right-to-left support, which triggers: * dir='RTL' attribute on the <html> element * swap the position of the spacer cell in the topbar/bottombar so it matches the sidebar * swap the text alignment of the two cells in the topbar I've only mucked about with the default skin here; I haven't tested Cologne Blue yet for instance. There's a lot of weirdness with punctuation; hopefully localized interface strings should help make the screen look right. :) Various portions may need more explicit direction indicators stuck in or other whatnot. -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)

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Re: Announcing Wikimedia Foundation
by Toby Bartels 09 Jul '03

09 Jul '03

[This message has been crossposted from <intlwiki-L> to <wikitech-L>. Replies should go only to <wikitech-L>.] Timwi wrote in part: >In addition to this, however, I would like to point out that it is >widely considered a bad practice to serve the same content under several >URLs. Currently I can reach the exact same article by going to any of a >veritable plethora of URLs: > http://www.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Dextrose > http://www.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Glucose > http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dextrose > http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glucose > http://www.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?search=dextrose&go=Go > http://www.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?search=glucose&go=Go >plus several different capitalisations of the latter two. Those latter >two I find particularly disturbing. People will link to them and trigger >the Search algorithm for every visitor, which generates an unnecessary >impact on the database server. Plus, the searches may not return the >same article indefinitely. I think that we want to consider the purpose of the differences. You've already mentioned the purpose of "Dextrose"/"Glucose"; it's to give us the redirection information. So that's OK. I see no purpose to the "search" URIs, so I agree that they should redirect; and in addition to your point about activating the search algorithm, also note that the algorithm might not even give the same page next time! (Don't confuse the two sorts of redirection here: Wikipedia redirection and HTTP redirection. I just mentioned both of these in that order.) Another URI variation that you just barely missed is capitalisation among the /non/-search URIs -- this serves no purpose under our page capitalisation scheme, so they should probably redirect to capitalised URIs too. Then there's the difference between "/w/wiki.phtml?title=" and "/wiki/". AFAICT, the only purpose of this is to have robots index "/wiki/" URIs, since "/w/" URIs are set to be unindexed in our <robots.txt> file. (Those that understand these things will hopefully confirm if I'm right.) Then I agree with your solution; "/w/wiki.phtml?title=..." should redirect to "/wiki/..." if no ampersands appear in the ellipsis -- and this could conceivably even increase robots' indexing of our pages. -- Toby

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LanguageDe.php
by Thomas Corell 08 Jul '03

08 Jul '03

Someone found another typo, therefore I made a new update. Brion, to get the status to a well known point, if the article count don't go below 20000 if we change to the new one, I think we should switch. I don't know if you can take a look, without changing it. Than, as far as I know, we should be on the same patch level in en and de. -- Smurf smurf(a)AdamAnt.mud.de ------------------------- Anthill inside! ---------------------------

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suggestion for making the sysops job easier
by Jonathan Walther 08 Jul '03

08 Jul '03

On the Recentchanges page, if a contributor isn't logged in, you can click on their IP number to see what changes they have made previously. I suggest putting a link on the IP's contributions page so you can see the contributions from the entire Class C subnet. If someone is hopping around from IP to IP, this should make it much easier to observe their pattern of behavior, and revert their edits. Just putting that out there; good luck with your Wikipedia project. Jonathan -- It's not true unless it makes you laugh, but you don't understand it until it makes you weep. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Geek House Productions, Ltd. Providing Unix & Internet Contracting and Consulting, QA Testing, Technical Documentation, Systems Design & Implementation, General Programming, E-commerce, Web & Mail Services since 1998 Phone: 604-435-1205 Email: djw(a)reactor-core.org Webpage: http://reactor-core.org Address: 2459 E 41st Ave, Vancouver, BC V5R2W2

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I User:Stevertigo formally request developer level access
by steve vertigo 08 Jul '03

08 Jul '03

I User:Stevertigo formally request sysop/admin/developer level access to the Arabic Wikipedia. Among the first issues would be to deal with the encoding there. UTF-8 or 1256 are canditates, but it would require some proper testing. My Arabic is very limited, though, and hopefully some changes ought give some life and perhaps credibility to the Ar.Wikipedia. I User:Stevertigo formally request sysop/admin developer level access to the Simple Enlgish Wikpedia. Among the first issues would be to deal with finding a use for the simple. Wikipedia -- among my proposals ( http://simple.wikipedia.com/wiki.cgi?SEnpl_For_Translation ) is the possiblitly of using simple English as a base for translating the vast catalog of English articles to other languages. By allowing the Simple Wikipedia to act as a kind of firewall, sandbox, embassy... any problems arising from the perception that non-English speakers and English speakers have of each other, will be mitigated. If interested, please see the recent changes made to the Simple.wikipedia -- http://simple.wikipedia.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com

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Sofware changes for Fascile Translation
by steve vertigo 08 Jul '03

08 Jul '03

Sofware changes for Fascile Translation on the Wikipedia (International) 1. Wikisoftware upgrade for the Simple English Wikipedia. 2. Means to siphon English wikipedia database to the Simple English database. 3. Application to facilitat translation from the English WP to the Simple English WP. 4. Download WKP format textfiles link on each article. Comment: Some of the recent discussions among the various mailing lists deal with the compartmentalization factor of the Wikipedia -- that language borders represent too much of a relative challenge to allow for cross-language interest. Speaking personally, I would do more translation if it the software were set up to make it easier, so I simply wouldnt feel alone in doing it. In a sense, WP's strong English showing in terms of article count (relative to non-En langa) is like a pillar -- one that is increasingly tall, and increasingly narrow. It's somewhat reminicent of the saying ( from "Dune Messiah"): "Here lies a toppled God His fall was not a small one We did but build his pedestal A narrow and a tall one." Most of us here deal with English as a common language -- and the Goal is to increase the number of inter-language "ambassadors" and hence, the number of non-English speakers. By these ambassadors, and by improving the synergy between discussion groups, article writing, etc. -- The rules of the Wikipedia -- that its attempts to institute controls over the processes of the Wikipedia, can then be better disseminated and debated. Language problems are really problems of communication, as such can be rectified somwhat by simplifying communication (not over-simpifying) by allowing the Simple English WP to take the place of the English WP as the center of international content. Generally, it would be proper to simply stipulate that the English Wikipedia should have a great deal of leeway in terms of its rules, but since a great many non-native English speakers can potentially want to contribute and use English articles, it becomes necessary to have a sandbox of sorts, to allow for crude-English seeding of articles, and to port the English WP to other languages. In the linguistic sense, a simplified English language should serve quite well as a "transformative grammar" -- Chomsky's (now semi-depricated) description of an innate, baseline natural language. In the internationalist sense, this would be a key step toward increasing WP's international appeal. Reason -- to use the Simple English WP as a "pure language" base - from which a broader range of people can translate the populous English articles to other languages. A translation from say, Chinese to simple English, and then edited, would be far easier to do than if normal gramatical standards werent necessary. Hence, the real purpose for a Simple Wikipedia is not to "teach English", (as it until-recently stated) rather to allow non-English speakers to deal with articles in English, as well as make it possible to contribute to them. *Allow for a simple "port"( like "move page") functions from the English WP to the Simple WP - (from Simple to English only if English article doesnt exist) * Conversion from English to Simple English (SEmpl?) should parse language (pw placing wrappers around unknown terms, and if possible (as announced in some translation attempts) to , etc. *Problems: Redundancy/loss of information/increased rates of poor translation. These are all fixable. The point is to generate more interest, and increase cross-langa communication, with the help of a base. Simple English may not be a theoretical ideal for this purpose, but it may be the only practical choice. *Requirements: Perhaps, a unified User:name system. One name carries over all WikiMedia sites. -- This allows at least a crossover ability to register Edits, ports and *Related page activity -- Since each article, though by a new name, has some relation to activity of that article accross lingustic lines, it should be facilitated that each article should have a listed cross-langa database function --( I know the DB dont work this way now.) The current DIY langa links are an obstacle -- for each language, be there a page or not, there should be a link from each page, and tools to send text to the Simple English version. It makes sense to have this be done page by page -- not altogether blanket automated from the English WP, though Im sure we can all agree that the current software doesnt help this kind of thing out at all. Client(editing/concordancing/uploading) The translation of an English Wikipage ideally could be helped via a fully functional editing client, and text highlighting could be a part --as in the VIM Wikipedia Schema -- though Keynote might also be a good choice client if implemented correctly. Adding concordancing ability to this client would save yet another step the goal of cross-pollenation of articles. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com

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Polish Wikipedia broken
by Krzysztof P. Jasiutowicz 08 Jul '03

08 Jul '03

Hi, Please look into problems on the the Polish Wikipedia urgently. Saving newly created articles results in: Wystąpił błąd składni w zapytaniu do bazy danych. Ostatnie, nieudane zapytanie to: "INSERT INTO cur (cur_namespace,cur_title,cur_text,cur_comment,cur_user,cur_timestamp,c ur_minor_edit,cur_counter,cur_restrictions,cur_user_text,cur_is_redire ct,cur_is_new,cur_random,cur_touched,inverse_timestamp) VALUES (0,'Antropopresja', '\'\'\'Antropopresją\'\'\' określa się ogół planowych i nieplanowych działań człowieka, wywołujących określone zmiany w [[przyroda|przyrodzie]]. Współcześnie określenie to akcentuje wpływ niekorzystny, utrudniający prawidłowy rozwój ekosystemów. Zobacz też: [[podstawowe zagadnienia związane z ekologią]].', 'Nowy art', '4', '20030708104855', 0, 0, '', 'Kpjas', 0, 1, 0,616858519435, '20030708104855', '79969291895144')" wywołane zostało przez funkcję "Article::insertNewArticle". MySQL zgłosił błąd "1136: Column count doesn't match value count at row 1". Thanks. Regards, Kpjas.

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Access Problem (Database-de)
by Thomas Corell 08 Jul '03

08 Jul '03

Hello, this will be usually something for Brion: Since the update the german sysop's can't access the DB using the AskSQL-page. All tested table-queries results in the error: 1142: select command denied to user: 'sqluser(a)localhost.localdomain' for table 'cur' (cur is an exaample, old, user etc. don't work too. Posible errors: AskSQL uses the wrong user, or the tables missing rights for that user. PS: sorry for reporting so late, but I thought after the update, the Asksql was blocked for reducing server load. -- Smurf smurf(a)AdamAnt.mud.de ------------------------- Anthill inside! ---------------------------

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Wikitech-l July 2003