Dear Wikisource community, I want to a ask a question that surely have been raised before. Unfortunately, I haven't find that in the archive of wikisource-l, so I will ask you.
On what legal basis are we uploading Google Books (and Internet Archive, and Gallica) scans on Commons, putting the {{PD-Scan}} on those?
I remember endless discussions in it.source about these issues, with contrasting opinions (both with reasons). For example, if we are able to upload from Gallica to Commons and then Wikisource, why the WM-Fr community did have to make an agreement with the BnF? Am I understanding this correctly? Was the material *donated*? I know the texts are PD, but also the images?
I know this is a probably well known topic, I've just never read a definitive clarification on this issue. Thank you
Aubrey
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:When_to_use_the_PD-Art_tag#The_pos...
Klaus Graf
2010/10/26 Andrea Zanni zanni.andrea84@gmail.com:
Dear Wikisource community, I want to a ask a question that surely have been raised before. Unfortunately, I haven't find that in the archive of wikisource-l, so I will ask you.
On what legal basis are we uploading Google Books (and Internet Archive, and Gallica) scans on Commons, putting the {{PD-Scan}} on those?
I remember endless discussions in it.source about these issues, with contrasting opinions (both with reasons). For example, if we are able to upload from Gallica to Commons and then Wikisource, why the WM-Fr community did have to make an agreement with the BnF? Am I understanding this correctly? Was the material *donated*? I know the texts are PD, but also the images?
I know this is a probably well known topic, I've just never read a definitive clarification on this issue. Thank you
Aubrey
Wikisource-l mailing list Wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l
Thank you Klaus, I didn't know about that. But what about the "NPG affair"? http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Dcoetzee/NPG_legal_threat
I know that scans are mechanical reproduction of texts, but I don't know all legislations could agree on this. I'm fairly sure that the Italian law guarantees 20 years of copyright to the creator of an "image" of any thing. It probably guarantees the copyright of even the trascription of a text (I interrogated a lawyer few years ago, he just confirmed the issue is unclear and everyone is interpretating the law as preferred... )
Aubrey
2010/10/26 Klaus Graf klausgraf@googlemail.com
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:When_to_use_the_PD-Art_tag#The_pos...
Klaus Graf
2010/10/26 Andrea Zanni zanni.andrea84@gmail.com:
Dear Wikisource community, I want to a ask a question that surely have been raised before. Unfortunately, I haven't find that in the archive of wikisource-l, so I will ask you.
On what legal basis are we uploading Google Books (and Internet Archive,
and
Gallica) scans on Commons, putting the {{PD-Scan}} on those?
I remember endless discussions in it.source about these issues, with contrasting opinions (both with reasons). For example, if we are able to upload from Gallica to Commons and then Wikisource, why the WM-Fr community did have to make an agreement with the BnF? Am I understanding this correctly? Was the material *donated*? I know the texts are PD, but also the images?
I know this is a probably well known topic, I've just never read a definitive clarification on this issue. Thank you
Aubrey
Wikisource-l mailing list Wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l
Wikisource-l mailing list Wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l
Roma locuta causa finita.
There is no need to discuss things which have been discussed enough. If you have another position feel free to make an own project in Italia.
The NPG affair has changed NOTHING.
I am fairly sure that European law forbids copyrighting merely scans without originality. Italy has to respect this.
Klaus Graf
2010/10/26 Andrea Zanni zanni.andrea84@gmail.com:
Thank you Klaus, I didn't know about that. But what about the "NPG affair"? http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Dcoetzee/NPG_legal_threat
I know that scans are mechanical reproduction of texts, but I don't know all legislations could agree on this. I'm fairly sure that the Italian law guarantees 20 years of copyright to the creator of an "image" of any thing. It probably guarantees the copyright of even the trascription of a text (I interrogated a lawyer few years ago, he just confirmed the issue is unclear and everyone is interpretating the law as preferred... )
Aubrey
2010/10/26 Klaus Graf klausgraf@googlemail.com
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:When_to_use_the_PD-Art_tag#The_pos...
Klaus Graf
2010/10/26 Andrea Zanni zanni.andrea84@gmail.com:
Dear Wikisource community, I want to a ask a question that surely have been raised before. Unfortunately, I haven't find that in the archive of wikisource-l, so I will ask you.
On what legal basis are we uploading Google Books (and Internet Archive, and Gallica) scans on Commons, putting the {{PD-Scan}} on those?
I remember endless discussions in it.source about these issues, with contrasting opinions (both with reasons). For example, if we are able to upload from Gallica to Commons and then Wikisource, why the WM-Fr community did have to make an agreement with the BnF? Am I understanding this correctly? Was the material *donated*? I know the texts are PD, but also the images?
I know this is a probably well known topic, I've just never read a definitive clarification on this issue. Thank you
Aubrey
Wikisource-l mailing list Wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l
Wikisource-l mailing list Wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l
Wikisource-l mailing list Wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l
2010/10/26 Klaus Graf klausgraf@googlemail.com
Roma locuta causa finita.
There is no need to discuss things which have been discussed enough. If you have another position feel free to make an own project in Italia.
The NPG affair has changed NOTHING.
I am fairly sure that European law forbids copyrighting merely scans without originality. Italy has to respect this.
IMHO there's a netiquette issue, apart from a legal issue. My suggestion is to let alwais, and as soon is opossible, the "owner" know that "his" work has been uploaded into Commons, thanking him and encouraging him to use wikipedia derived work in the terms of our free licences.
Many "owners" would appreciate it, some would claim; claims should be managed on common sense grounds. But it's far better a prompt claim, that a legal claim that comes after years. Isn't it?
Alex
2010/10/26 Klaus Graf klausgraf@googlemail.com
Roma locuta causa finita.
I actually wrote this mail for understanding the issue, and know where did you discuss these things before. If you have links (like the one you gave me), I'd appreciate. (and, I'm not sure that the WMF can be ragerded as Roma: if someone sued you, and the WMF didn't care, the cause would not be finished at all)
There is no need to discuss things which have been discussed enough.
See above. I would like to have information and links to these discussion.
If you have another position feel free to make an own project in Italia.
Obviously, this is not the case.
The NPG affair has changed NOTHING.
Do you happen to know how that finished?
I am fairly sure that European law forbids copyrighting merely scans without originality. Italy has to respect this.
Do you have any reference? THAT would be helpful.
Aubrey
Klaus Graf
2010/10/26 Andrea Zanni zanni.andrea84@gmail.com:
Thank you Klaus, I didn't know about that. But what about the "NPG affair"? http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Dcoetzee/NPG_legal_threat
I know that scans are mechanical reproduction of texts, but I don't know all legislations could agree on this. I'm fairly sure that the Italian law guarantees 20 years of copyright to
the
creator of an "image" of any thing. It probably guarantees the copyright of even the trascription of a text
(I
interrogated a lawyer few years ago, he just confirmed the issue is
unclear
and everyone is interpretating the law as preferred... )
Aubrey
2010/10/26 Klaus Graf klausgraf@googlemail.com
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:When_to_use_the_PD-Art_tag#The_pos...
Klaus Graf
2010/10/26 Andrea Zanni zanni.andrea84@gmail.com:
Dear Wikisource community, I want to a ask a question that surely have been raised before. Unfortunately, I haven't find that in the archive of wikisource-l, so I will ask you.
On what legal basis are we uploading Google Books (and Internet
Archive,
and Gallica) scans on Commons, putting the {{PD-Scan}} on those?
I remember endless discussions in it.source about these issues, with contrasting opinions (both with reasons). For example, if we are able to upload from Gallica to Commons and then Wikisource, why the WM-Fr community did have to make an agreement with the BnF? Am I understanding this correctly? Was the material *donated*? I know the texts are PD, but also the images?
I know this is a probably well known topic, I've just never read a definitive clarification on this issue. Thank you
Aubrey
Wikisource-l mailing list Wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l
Wikisource-l mailing list Wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l
Wikisource-l mailing list Wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l
Wikisource-l mailing list Wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l
2010/10/26 Andrea Zanni zanni.andrea84@gmail.com:
2010/10/26 Klaus Graf klausgraf@googlemail.com
Roma locuta causa finita.
I actually wrote this mail for understanding the issue, and know where did you discuss these things before. If you have links (like the one you gave me), I'd appreciate. (and, I'm not sure that the WMF can be ragerded as Roma: if someone sued you, and the WMF didn't care, the cause would not be finished at all)
There is no need to discuss things which have been discussed enough.
See above. I would like to have information and links to these discussion.
Feel free to search Commons, en Wikipedia, de Wikipedia, Foundation-l. You will find enough stuff.
If you have another position feel free to make an own project in Italia.
Obviously, this is not the case.
The NPG affair has changed NOTHING.
Do you happen to know how that finished?
Feel free to read
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Dcoetzee/NPG_legal_threat/Coverage#Fe...
NPG claims were'nt successful.
I am fairly sure that European law forbids copyrighting merely scans without originality. Italy has to respect this.
Do you have any reference? THAT would be helpful.
You did'nt give any reference for your own assertions. Read
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:62008J0005:EN:HT...
and make your own judgement if a scan falls under "author’s own intellectual creation".
EOD for my part
Klaus Graf
Andrea Zanni, 26/10/2010 15:07:
2010/10/26 Klaus Graf
Roma locuta causa finita.I actually wrote this mail for understanding the issue, and know where did you discuss these things before. If you have links (like the one you gave me), I'd appreciate.
I had added several links to previous discussions in http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons_talk:When_to_use_the_PD-scan_tag some months ago. :-)
Nemo
wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org