Ni!
Dear Tomasz, María, and by proxy AffCom,
Thank you for your interest in holding a conversation with us.
Rodrigo just shot a very short reply and forgot to address everyone, he's quite troubled taking care of Wikibrasil matters and I guess tried to expedite things. What he stated is correct, though, but deserves more explanation - which is reflected in Thomas' puzzled reply on the wiki page Rodrigo suggested:
http://br.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation/Comit%C3%AA_de_Afilia%C3%A...
The long story is, we have brought your proposal to the attention of our community, and it came to a consensus that we'd much rather discuss this: "all matters related to Wikimedia Brasil's process of recognition as a Wikimedia chapter, specifically including the recent developments", on a wiki page, or perhaps on IRC[1], but preferably the former.
As much as a voice conversation may seem simpler to you, and I agree it's friendlier, it actually comes with a huge overhead on us as a community and an organization.
We trust it is best for everyone to come to their own understanding of the matters rather than hearing it from what little reporting a couple of people will be able to do in the time they have for it. And also, important discussions like these usually get a lot better when we can provide input from the whole community, plus discussing on a wiki has the immediate added benefit of producing fine documentation.
I think the same will apply to some extent to AffCom itself, as many of you still have questions about our doings, and it seems to me more productive for everyone to have readily available a source against which to check any ambiguities which inevitably arise in reporting.
Should we agree on this, we would gladly set up and keep carefully organized a page on Meta for this conversation - not the link Rodrigo sent you, - so you can fill it with your facts, news, observations and questions from AffCom. We are eager to proceed with this dialogue.
Also, we've recently received an OTRS request from AffCom, which we have started to discuss but have not concluded a reply yet. Should we disregard that request in light of this current contact?
Finally, at the same time, if you want a friendly chat with no strings attached, feel free to find me on IRC as "solstag", call me on the jabber/gtalk network, where I'm "solstag@jabber.org", or request my personal phone number.
Hugs,
ale
PS: I have the habit of copying WMBR's list in my replies to private requests, though you're not required to keep it on record when replying yourselves.
([1] except on IRC we'd rather do it in Portuguese, as María can understand it and it makes more sense for one person to use a translating tool rather than have everyone on the other side do it.)
On 07-10-2012 07:49, Tomasz W. Kozłowski wrote:
Dear Rodrigo, Al-Scandar and Castelo, I am contacting you on behalf of the Affiliations Committee to invite you for a Webex call about Wikimedia Brasil's process of recognition as a Wikimedia chapter.
We would like to use this call as an opportunity to discuss all matters related to Wikimedia Brasil's process of recognition as a Wikimedia chapter, specifically including the recent developments (since our meeting at the Chapters Conference in Berlin, Germany, at the end of March).
The Committee will be represented by Maria (CC'd here) and myself, and I have contacted you as the three most active and well-known members of Wikimedia Brasil that I could think of; I you feel that you will be unable to take part in the call or have another suggestions for people that should be part of it, please let us know. If possible, I would like, however, to limit the number of people taking part in the call to 5/6, because the bigger the group is, the harder it is to have a productive call.
On a more technical note: Webex is a web conferencing system developed by Cisco Systems, Inc. that is used by the Wikimedia Foundation. It enables people not only to take part in a conference via their computer, but also makes it possible to join the conference through a toll-free call-in phone number or to receive an incoming call from the conference (so you don't have to pay for the call).
The WMF has been using Webex for some time already, and I have also thoroughly tested it myself; it's very easy to use, and the possibility of calling-in the conference makes the audio quality very good, much better than Skype or other VoIP services; also, the only requirement to use Webex is to have a Java-enabled browser.
If you'd like to take part in the call, please write down your preference using a Doodle form at http://doodle.com/nsv6yusym5dxgs8h. There are 5 hours of difference between Europe and Brazil, so I have tried to make it possible for all of us to take part in the call, scheduling it for a late afternoon in Brazil (which is a late evening here in Europe). Please note that the hours are given in UTC -- but you're able to convert them to your local time using a drop-down menu just above the suggested times.
If you have any questions about the meeting, please do not hesitate to ask.
Thanks in advance for your time,
Hello Al-Scandar, thank you for such a prompt and extensive reply.
I suggested a (phone) call for a reason: it is, from my experience, one of the most effective ways to discuss almost any topic one can think of, and one that I have been using very often in the past (for instance while preparing for Wiki Loves Monuments 2012).
Webex in particular has the added value of allowing multiple simultanous connections, and it also has the feature of voice-recording the whole call. It is a long tradition of this Committee to document its meetings, so I am sure we won't be lacking any documentation or notes if we decide on having a phone call some time in the future.
Phone calls are also a much faster way of communication than wikis; as you probably know from your own experience, on-wiki discussions tend to take a long time, counted not even in weeks, but also in months.
It was my understanding that it was in Wikimedia Brasil's best interest to become an officially approved and recognised Wikimedia chapter as soon as possible, but I am of course happy to have the discussion on-wiki if that is your wish, though as I said, it might take many months to come to have it finished -- especially with regards to this Committee, which as you have also probably noticed, is not the fastest to respond (for whatever reasons), and has this unfortunate feature of changing its members every year.
If you'd like to set up a proper discussion page on Meta, please feel free to move my comment from your wiki over there; I would appreciate just being informed where the discussion is supposed to take place.
As for the OTRS e-mail, please take your time in answering our questions; for bookeeping purposes, I would appreciate it if you could post your answers on the Meta talk page to-be.
I also thank you for inviting me to a private chat over Jabber (I am unfortunately not using this IM anymore) and IRC; I am, however, not able to represent AffCom in any private chats, and don't think this would be of much use for AffCom's (and simultanously Wikimedia Brasil's) purposes.
However, if you'd like to receive some general information about AffCom or the recognition process of a Wikimedia chapter in general, please feel free to approach me on #wikimedia-chapters (I'm logged-in as "odder").
Thank you for your time,
2012/10/8 Tomasz W. Kozłowski odder.wiki@gmail.com:
It was my understanding that it was in Wikimedia Brasil's best interest to become an officially approved and recognised Wikimedia chapter as soon as possible, but I am of course happy to have the discussion on-wiki if that is your wish, though as I said, it might take many months to come to have it finished -- especially with regards to this Committee, which as you have also probably noticed, is not the fastest to respond (for whatever reasons), and has this unfortunate feature of changing its members every year.
"Take many months". Is this serious?
On 08-10-2012 17:45, Everton Zanella Alvarenga wrote:
2012/10/8 Tomasz W. Kozłowski odder.wiki@gmail.com:
It was my understanding that it was in Wikimedia Brasil's best interest to become an officially approved and recognised Wikimedia chapter as soon as possible, but I am of course happy to have the discussion on-wiki if that is your wish, though as I said, it might take many months to come to have it finished -- especially with regards to this Committee, which as you have also probably noticed, is not the fastest to respond (for whatever reasons), and has this unfortunate feature of changing its members every year.
"Take many months". Is this serious?
Ni!
Everton, calm down, kkk, he's just afraid that on wiki discussions last longer - with a bit of hyperbole, I agree.
Thomas is not insinuating that if we move to a wiki they will do anything to make the process longer.
I don't think it will take much longer to deal on wiki than over phone, if AffCom is clear with their questions and requests, and we're concise and clear in our answers.
We'll try to keep this a short conversation where we get the up to date facts and figures, come to an agreement and move on.
Hugs,
ale
Ni!
Here you go, Tomasz and María:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Brasil/AffCom
We gratefully await your communication.
Thank you,
ale
PS: Tomasz, did you know jabber and gmail chat can talk to each other?
On 08-10-2012 16:51, Tomasz W. Kozłowski wrote:
Hello Al-Scandar, thank you for such a prompt and extensive reply.
I suggested a (phone) call for a reason: it is, from my experience, one of the most effective ways to discuss almost any topic one can think of, and one that I have been using very often in the past (for instance while preparing for Wiki Loves Monuments 2012).
Webex in particular has the added value of allowing multiple simultanous connections, and it also has the feature of voice-recording the whole call. It is a long tradition of this Committee to document its meetings, so I am sure we won't be lacking any documentation or notes if we decide on having a phone call some time in the future.
Phone calls are also a much faster way of communication than wikis; as you probably know from your own experience, on-wiki discussions tend to take a long time, counted not even in weeks, but also in months.
It was my understanding that it was in Wikimedia Brasil's best interest to become an officially approved and recognised Wikimedia chapter as soon as possible, but I am of course happy to have the discussion on-wiki if that is your wish, though as I said, it might take many months to come to have it finished -- especially with regards to this Committee, which as you have also probably noticed, is not the fastest to respond (for whatever reasons), and has this unfortunate feature of changing its members every year.
If you'd like to set up a proper discussion page on Meta, please feel free to move my comment from your wiki over there; I would appreciate just being informed where the discussion is supposed to take place.
As for the OTRS e-mail, please take your time in answering our questions; for bookeeping purposes, I would appreciate it if you could post your answers on the Meta talk page to-be.
I also thank you for inviting me to a private chat over Jabber (I am unfortunately not using this IM anymore) and IRC; I am, however, not able to represent AffCom in any private chats, and don't think this would be of much use for AffCom's (and simultanously Wikimedia Brasil's) purposes.
However, if you'd like to receive some general information about AffCom or the recognition process of a Wikimedia chapter in general, please feel free to approach me on #wikimedia-chapters (I'm logged-in as "odder").
Thank you for your time,
Hi Al-Scandar, thanks for setting this up. Would you be so kind as to copy my questions from your internal wiki onto this new page and answer those there? I still would like to see us having a call meeting sometime.
And as there are no apparent questions from AffCom now, please do post your answers to our OTRS reply onto this page, too, and we shall answer them there as well :-))
Thanks a lot for your help!
PS Yes, I do know (even Facebook is Jabber-based now) about that, but I don't use Google Talk very often these days.
Ni!
Hey Tomasz, María, everyone.
I organized all communication we have received so far into that page.
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Brasil/AffCom
As you'll see from the answers already there, for now most of us would rather not see a call as necessary in the future of this dialogue, and I hope we can move swiftly forward with the wiki.
Personally, I have both experiences, of wikis being more and less productive and speedy than voice conversations, and in this case I'm betting on the wiki for the reasons now explained in there.
So, right now we stand waiting for all the questions that are holding back the approval of our application, as most of us remain puzzled and a bit wary about what serious issues could be delaying or threatening a process we have put so much energy into.
Thank you and I hope we can get over with this and then have a meaningless voice talk about whether those Wikipedia Zero stickers I saw at Wikimania work more to promote Coca-Cola or Wikipedia. ;D hehe
Hugs,
ale .~´
On 08-10-2012 18:51, Tomasz W. Kozłowski wrote:
Hi Al-Scandar, thanks for setting this up. Would you be so kind as to copy my questions from your internal wiki onto this new page and answer those there? I still would like to see us having a call meeting sometime.
And as there are no apparent questions from AffCom now, please do post your answers to our OTRS reply onto this page, too, and we shall answer them there as well :-))
Thanks a lot for your help!
PS Yes, I do know (even Facebook is Jabber-based now) about that, but I don't use Google Talk very often these days.
For what it's worth, I'd always rather discuss anything through some written medium than any voice medium.
hugs!
Betty VH
Em 9/10/2012 05:38, Al-Scandar Solstag escreveu:
Ni!
Hey Tomasz, María, everyone.
I organized all communication we have received so far into that page.
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Brasil/AffCom
As you'll see from the answers already there, for now most of us would rather not see a call as necessary in the future of this dialogue, and I hope we can move swiftly forward with the wiki.
Personally, I have both experiences, of wikis being more and less productive and speedy than voice conversations, and in this case I'm betting on the wiki for the reasons now explained in there.
So, right now we stand waiting for all the questions that are holding back the approval of our application, as most of us remain puzzled and a bit wary about what serious issues could be delaying or threatening a process we have put so much energy into.
Thank you and I hope we can get over with this and then have a meaningless voice talk about whether those Wikipedia Zero stickers I saw at Wikimania work more to promote Coca-Cola or Wikipedia. ;D hehe
Hugs,
ale .~´
On 08-10-2012 18:51, Tomasz W. Kozłowski wrote:
Hi Al-Scandar, thanks for setting this up. Would you be so kind as to copy my questions from your internal wiki onto this new page and answer those there? I still would like to see us having a call meeting sometime.
And as there are no apparent questions from AffCom now, please do post your answers to our OTRS reply onto this page, too, and we shall answer them there as well :-))
Thanks a lot for your help!
PS Yes, I do know (even Facebook is Jabber-based now) about that, but I don't use Google Talk very often these days.
WikimediaBR-l mailing list WikimediaBR-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediabr-l
Ni! Hello Tomasz and María =)
Just to call your attention that all questions on the wiki have now been replied.
Note that I did not sign the answer to the 'wmbrorganization' question, as per the discussion page it was mutually agreed among all interested participants.
Thank you guys, have fun thinking and let us clarify any remaining issues!
Abraços, l e
wikimediabr-l@lists.wikimedia.org