I think now (for a week or so already) instead of "conditionally approved" they use the term "eligible", which in my opinion better states what has been done. The procedure of deeming "eligible" takes less than a day at this stage. (Though apparently there are some exceptions with discussion taken over months, like Karelian Wp).
Cheers, Yaroslav
Hoi, For the record the time from a proposed *final* approval to publishing the approval is at least two weeks. The fact that Japanese Wikiveristy show as *conditionally approved* is only demonstrating the fact that there are no obstacles from finally approving a project. At this stage we do not look at all at the localisation.
A good example is Sranan Tongo. They have been conditionally approved and are working hard and doing a great job on their localisation. At the time of final approval when we consider eligibility for final approval we look at the localisation for real. Thanks, GerardM
On Jan 15, 2008 2:17 PM, Aphaia < aphaia@gmail.com> wrote:
On Jan 15, 2008 9:09 PM, Jerome Banal < jerome.banal@gmail.com> wrote:
I certainly don't want to sit between you guys but just want to
highlight
something that I think I understood (but might be wrong) from Gerard's writings and that you may have missed:
It seems to me that the Greek project has been under examination
before the
change in policy that creates this new stronger requirement, whereas
the
Japanese has been examined after this change.
[show] Wikiversity Greek 3 Approved 10-Jan-2008 [show] Wikiversity Japanese 2 2 Verified as eligible 19-Dec-2007
And it was January 5 that GerardM told Japanese Wikiversity to localize all files.
http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Requests_for_new_languages%2FWik...
I am afraid your chronology is anachronistic and not based on the fact.
It's not that the two projects are considered differently under the
same
rules, it is that they are considered with different rules because the
rules
have changed (for every project that has not been examined yet,
including
any additional Greek project that may come after that one) between the
two
requests.
Now, I might be wrong; This is not very well mentioned in Gerard's
mails but
I think it is hinted.
Not taking any position for or against that change in rule :-)
Kind regards, Jerome
2008/1/15, Aphaia < aphaia@gmail.com>:
On Jan 15, 2008 8:25 PM, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
Hoi, I tried to point out to you personally how the policy is
consistent in
time.
I also explained why the policy is reasonable. As I have said the
same
things now several times, I do not want to repeat the things
publicly
again
unless there is a new point to clarify.
It is your wishes not mine. And if you think it is enough to
persuade
me to cover your inequity for all Japanese people involved into Wiversity sorry I disagree.
There is no reason to hide it in a cupboard. And I esteem
transparency.
And if there is any new point - you still haven't provide why
inequity
between Greeks and Japanese justified.
Because of my respect to you I have endeavoured to word things differently and more personally. I do
not do
that
for many others. :)
- I don't have an interest to discuss with you as individual. I ask
Langcom for their opinion as Wikimedia Committee. Not you
individual.
Hence your wish for private conversation is irrelevant. 2. As a committee member, I rather wish you esteem the all
Wikiversity
people, not your preferring individuals. And as a committee member
you
should do, imo.
PS my name is Gerard not Gerald :)
Sorry, it is hard for native Japanese speaker to distinguish them.
Thanks, Gerard
On Jan 15, 2008 11:45 AM, Aphaia aphaia@gmail.com wrote:
Back to foundation-l.
Gerald, I have no idea why you mailed me privately and in that
you didn't respond any of my specific questions.
I think I tried to ask politely LangCom for the inconsistency in GeraldM's messages and ask GeraldM himself to clarify what is
his
standpoint?
In this context what means a privately sent mail?
In both points a reasonable public clear response in an
appropriate
manner will be appreciated.
On Jan 15, 2008 6:55 PM, Gerard Meijssen
<gerard.meijssen@gmail.com
wrote:
> Hoi, > The policy was recently changed. All the languages that were
at that
time
> approved or were in the process of being approved do not have
to
comply
with
> the new standard. The process of being approved starts when a
member
of
the
> langcom asks other members of the langcom for approval for a
project.
This
> is often communicated privately with people representing the
new
project.
> > We need full localisation for all languages. For Greek, for
Japanese
...
> without full localisation important messages will not be
available
and
> consequently when new software is introduced there will be a
lot of
> uncertainty. The messages for Single User Logon are in an
exension.
They
are
> extremely relevant when SUL goes life. We do not require any
extension
> messages for a first project in a language because we trust
the
community to
> do well and translate them in BetaWIki. Often these messages
are
translated
> in the local project. > > With a second project in a language it becomes even more
important
that
the
> localisation is done centrally and this is the reason for the
new
> requirement. It is hard work to maintain the localisation.
When the
> localisation is only done in the biggest project. The smaller
projects
lose
> out. > > I hope you will appreciate that this policy only aims to
improve the
> localisation in all languages for us all. If anything the
policy and
the
> hard work at BetaWiki have shown to have a good effect. Things
have
already
> improved quite substantially over the last few months. > > Thanks, > Gerard > > Thanks, > Gerard > > > > On Jan 15, 2008 10:40 AM, Aphaia < aphaia@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Jan 15, 2008 4:26 PM, Gerard Meijssen <
gerard.meijssen@gmail.com>
> wrote: > > > Hoi, > > > Several members of the language committee are extremely
unhappy
with
> > > Pathoschild's sorry show of doing this on his own accord.
They
have
> > > indicated that they will block final approval for any
project by
going
> back > > > on this necessary part of the policy. > > > > Unless one other member of Langcom gives their
understanding, I
think
> > it wise not to comment to this part of your statement. > > > > And I take it strangely you speak without clarification as
whom
you
> > are talking. I don't want an opinion of certain individual
on his
> > individual basis. I asked opinion of Langcom. > > > > Do you speak here on behalf of Langcom based on consensus? > > > > > > > Again, there are two parts to the policy. > > > * When a language is starting it only needs to do the most
used
messages
> of > > > MediaWiki. This provides basic support for a language. > > > * When a project request is a subsequent project for a
language,
all
> > > MediaWiki messages and the messages of the extension used
by the
WMF
are
> > > required. > > > > [snip] > > > > > > > It is exactly for languages that use a different script
that it
is
vital
> > > that the localisation is done completely. For these
languages
there
is
> no > > > chance that the English word is the same or similar. > > > > Your argument here again become pointless. "A different
script" is
> > unclear and a-certain-but-not-clear-language-centric. Even
if I
assume
> > you wanted to mean "a different language from MediaWiki
default =
> > latin script", it is still pointless and give no insight of > > differences Langcom set between Greek (Greek script, not
latin)
and
> > Japanese (Kana and Kanji). And I would politely add Greek is
not
> > English word. > > > > Shortly your argument doesn't provide any good reason for
your
favor
> > to Greek project. > > > > > > > MediaWiki is an integral part of how we provide our
information.
It
> needs as > > > much tender loving care as we give to our content.
MediaWiki
receives a
> lot > > > of tender loving care from the developers. We can show our
appreciation
> by > > > making sure that their software is properly understood and
appreciated
> by > > > all its users not only for the people that know English
and get
> everything > > > by default. > > > > Again I should ask you: who are we? Specially if Pathoschild
pointed
> > out flows in your wording? > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > GerardM > > > > > > On Jan 15, 2008 12:08 AM, Jesse Martin (Pathoschild) > <pathoschild@gmail.com > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Aphaia, I'm sorry; I looked at the localization for
Japanese,
and
it
> > > > seems that this problem is caused by a change that
happened a
few
days
> > > > ago in the requirements. I've reverted them and brought
them
up
for
> > > > subcommittee discussion again (I hadn't commented on
them,
because
it
> > > > didn't seem from the proposal that they'd make much
difference).
I'll
> > > > keep you updated off-list. > > > > > > > > Yaroslav, as far as I know (I don't participate on that
page)
those
> > > > numbers are only there to give a general idea of the
discussion.
Since
> > > > they're manually updated, they're probably outdated most
of
the
time.
> > > > > > > > -- > > > > Yours cordially, > > > > Jesse Martin (Pathoschild) > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > foundation-l mailing list > > > > foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > foundation-l mailing list > > > foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > KIZU Naoko > > http://d.hatena.ne.jp/Britty (in Japanese) > > Quote of the Day (English):
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/WQ:QOTD
> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > foundation-l mailing list > > foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > > >
--
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