Peter
... and people who disagree post comments to that effect in a free, fair and frank exchange of views. So all is well.
Reynard
On Sun, Aug 20, 2017 at 5:18 AM, Peter Southwood < peter.southwood@telkomsa.net> wrote:
Funny thing, That is what I would have said of Fae as well Cheers, Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Rogol Domedonfors Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2017 11:07 PM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Canmore database and claims of copyright on public domain works
Peter, Thanks for the compliment. I just call them as I see them. Richard
On Sat, Aug 19, 2017 at 9:42 PM, Peter Southwood < peter.southwood@telkomsa.net> wrote:
Rogol, Not everyone is blessed with your easy-going tolerance and automatic assumption of good faith. Cheers, Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Rogol Domedonfors Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2017 10:16 PM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Canmore database and claims of copyright on public domain works
Fae,
You seem rather too quick to leap to the conclusion that anyone who disagrees with you on intellectual property has an imperfect understanding or is consciously committing "copyfraud". Have you made any attempts whatsoever to engage with the organisation in question to find what their position is and consider whether it might have some merits? Have you considered that if you were to approach them in a less aggressive fashion, they might be happy to work with you or others
to release their collection?
Alternatively, if you are absolutely confident that your understanding of the law is correct and theirs is not, then you are at no risk of being successfully prosecuted, so what is your problem?
"Rogol"
On Sat, Aug 19, 2017 at 4:31 PM, Fæ faewik@gmail.com wrote:
The Canmore database, https://canmore.org.uk, describes itself as the "online catalogue of the National Record of the Historic
Environment.
It holds detailed information and archive images for more than 300,000 places in Scotland." Canmore is part of Historic Environment Scotland (HES).
I'm aware that Wikimedia UK has helped to fund several projects in Scotland, so there is a network of contacts that could help take a look at the problematic claims of copyright. Perhaps someone can offer to take action to help Historic Environment Scotland reach a better understanding of copyright and avoid basic copyfraud errors?
In theory this could be a marvelous reference resource for open knowledge about the history of Scotland, but the online catalogue seems more like a retail outlet geared to maximise the cash to be made from selling archive images, many of which are obviously public domain. There are two basic problems:
- The online archive is limited to 800px width images, with website
users directed to buy higher resolutions which are claimed to be a minimum of 3,000 pixels wide.
- Regardless of age, source or photographer all images are claimed
as copyright with the conditions including "No permission is given for any commercial use, distribution or reproduction in these terms. Please use the BUY option for these purposes and separate licences will be provided."
I would be delighted to release some of the public domain collections from Canmore at high resolution to Wikimedia Commons, but at the moment it's all locked down. In fact were I to try to release the disappointingly small 800px versions of public domain images, even using the "required" attribution to RCAHMS (which no longer exists), I would be at personal risk of prosecution by HES based on the site terms and conditions. See examples 1 and 2.
Examples:
- Photograph of Hanover Street taken in 1870 by an unknown
photographer, making it likely to have been public domain from 1898. https://canmore.org.uk/collection/466213 2. Over 950 photographs taken by Francis M Christal, who died in 1944, making all photographs public domain in 2014: https://canmore.org.uk/collection/result?GROUPCATEGORY=5&SIMPLE_ KEYWORD=Francis%20M%20Chrystal&collection_items_page=40
Thanks, Fae -- faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
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