What are the examples of successful citizen news websites?
What could we learn from them?
On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 5:15 PM Ziko van Dijk zvandijk@gmail.com wrote:
Hello,
One of the central problems of Wikinews is that the content is not suitable for collaboration.
Content suitable for collaboration is related to a reality to which the collaborators equally have access. Think if an encyclopedia based on scholarly literature that (potentially) everybody can find in a library.
When a journalist has spoken to her 'sources' (relevant people), she is the one who had a special access to theses sources. The editors in the wiki did not have this access. They can correct typos but do little more.
Kind regards Ziko
Am Fr., 26. Apr. 2019 um 00:43 Uhr schrieb Philippe Beaudette philippe@beaudette.me:
The very smart Mr. Lih sayeth:
I have been a fan of the times Wikinews did original interviews with notable folks [1] so this is perhaps a sustainable niche. But as a direct news wire competitor to AP, Reuters or AFP, no.
[1]
https://en.m.wikinews.org/wiki/Shimon_Peres_discusses_the_future_of_Israel
Me too. In fact, I think this is something that Wikinews has always done very well. It also strikes me as an excellent, and quite functional, use for a Wiki. A wikivoices or wiki-interviews type project would be a fine addition to the ecosystem, imho. And it is very reasonable to think that given its success in this area, Wikinews could very easily pivot to fill that spot.
But a news competitor to traditional news outlets? Nope, that it isn't.
Philippe
On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 4:05 PM Andrew Lih andrew.lih@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 4:23 PM Jennifer Pryor-Summers < jennifer.pryorsummers@gmail.com> wrote:
Andrew
It seems to me that you're saying that, on the one hand, the policies
that
make Wikipedia work well as an encyclopaedia (NOR, RS, V, NORUSH)
are a
poor fit for a news-gathering operation and on the other hand,
Wikipedia
is
a success as a news-gathering operation. These seem inconsistent to
me.
As Wikimedians we are secondary source news summarizers rather than
primary
source news gatherers. That’s where the difference lies primarily.
I have been a fan of the times Wikinews did original interviews with notable folks [1] so this is perhaps a sustainable niche. But as a
direct
news wire competitor to AP, Reuters or AFP, no.
[1]
https://en.m.wikinews.org/wiki/Shimon_Peres_discusses_the_future_of_Israel
However, I conclude from what you're saying that the best way
forward is
to
fold the Wikinews operation into Wikipedia. Is that right?
Fold Wikinews altogether so it doesn’t confuse the public. Wikipedia editors are already doing a stellar job.
Andrew
On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 8:15 PM Andrew Lih andrew.lih@gmail.com
wrote:
On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 2:27 PM Jennifer Pryor-Summers < jennifer.pryorsummers@gmail.com> wrote:
Wikinews may not be doing too well, but (English-language)
Wikipedia
seems
to have taken up a news-gathering role not entirely consistent
with
its
encyclopediac mission: perhaps that's the reason. Maybe the WMF
should
sort out the demarcation issues.
Jennifer,
This has been a topic of discussion for more than a decade and the
vast
majority of the community has converged on the conclusion that
Wikinews
hasn't and won't ever work at any scale given its fundamental
properties.
News is often described as "the best obtainable version of the
truth
given
the constraints of a deadline." News depends on memorializing
direct
observation at a point in time. Therefore, the following policies
that
make
Wikipedia work are a bad fit for original, deadline reporting:
Wikipedia:NOR - no original research Wikipedia:RS - requirement for reliable sources Wikipedia:V - verifiability Wikipedia:NORUSH - there is no deadline/eventualism
Most anyone who tries Wikinews first hand will experience this
mismatch
and
realize it is a poor fit.
However, rather than lament why Wikinews doesn't work, we should
celebrate
the fact that we have found a better mode: entries that evolve
minute
to
minute (oftentimes second to second) to best reflect the world as
we
know
it. Embrace that new, live, constantly updated snapshot of reality
–
the
Wikipedia article.
If you want to see some of the earlier debates about the origins of Wikinews, October 2004 is a good place to look: [1]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2004-October/thread.html
[2]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2004-October/061017.html
-Andrew _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
-- -Andrew Lih Author of The Wikipedia Revolution US National Archives Citizen Archivist of the Year (2016) Knight Foundation grant recipient - Wikipedia Space (2015) Wikimedia DC - Outreach and GLAM Previously: professor of journalism and communications, American University, Columbia University, USC
Email: andrew@andrewlih.com WEB: https://muckrack.com/fuzheado PROJECT: Wikipedia Space: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:WPSPACE _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe