That the WMF *isn’t* a membership organisation already is rather weird. It may be specific to US organisations (in which case, references please), but it really isn’t normal on an international basis, nor within the Wikimedia movement (most/all affiliates have members).
Having to provide legal names and addresses may be a problem for some, but definitely not all Wikimedians. Similar with membership fees, particularly if it is set to a nominal value, and if there are ways of waving the fees if needed.
Governance issues definitely change - e.g., if you worry about an organisational take-over, then it’s no longer the board you have to worry about but the membership - but you have larger numbers of membership. However, it wouldn’t prevent things like movement-wide elections, they would just have to be ratified by a membership rather than the board.
It’s something that is worth thinking more about.
Thanks, Mike
On 8 Oct 2020, at 18:55, Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
Functionaries (checkusers, oversighters, stewards, OTRS members, and people with similar advanced permissions) have not been required to provide their personal information - name, DOB, address - for years. They simply sign off a type of confidentiality agreement with their username.
Risker/Anne
On Thu, 8 Oct 2020 at 13:52, Todd Allen toddmallen@gmail.com wrote:
Well, you could always do a nominal membership contribution, like a penny, or sponsorships for those who wish to join but don't have the money. Since WMF makes its money primarily from donations, there's really no need for it to actually sustain itself from membership fees.
So far as requiring non-pseudonymous membership, I don't think there's any requirement that such member lists be made public. So it would work a lot like functionaries giving their information for the private access policy; they are required to verify their identity, but that will be held privately and not available to the public. So for all intents and purposes, pseudonymous membership would still be possible.
Todd
On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 11:46 AM Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
Without needing to go into further detail, it is because to be a
membership
organization, pseudonyms aren't acceptable; all members must provide
their
full legal names and addresses. I also cannot think of a membership organization that does not charge a membership fee, although I suppose it is possible; but anything requiring a financial contribution would limit the membership to those who have the money to pay to join, which is antithetical to the movement's philosophy.
Risker/Anne
On Thu, 8 Oct 2020 at 13:41, Todd Allen toddmallen@gmail.com wrote:
Why would we "not want it to be a membership organization"? In fact,
many
of us want exactly that, since the WMF seems to think it can lord it
over
the communities instead of fulfilling its role of serving them.
The new Board rules basically say that the Board itself gets to say how
the
community-based members are selected, instead of having actual bylaws
as
to
how it happens. I'd like to see it done very simply: Those eight seats (forming a majority) on the Board should be elected (not nominated, elected) by the community, with the Board having no veto power over the results of the election.
Todd
On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 12:45 PM Brad Patrick bradp.wmf@gmail.com
wrote:
This is a very, very old and tired argument. If you do not understand United States non-profit corporations, go educate yourself about
those
first. If your perspective is non-US based, you may have a different
frame
of mind which is irreconcilable with the way WMF is. Take all the
time
you
need to see the differences before attacking WMF for (a) what it is
and
(b)
why it isn't what you want it to be.
WMF exists legally, and has as its foundation organizational
principle,
authority vested in a Board. WMF is not a membership organization.
You
would not want it to be a membership organization (as a matter of
law).
Please temper your criticism accordingly.
Brad Patrick Former WMF General Counsel
On 10/7/20, 12:47 PM, "Wikimedia-l on behalf of Paulo Santos
Perneta"
<
wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org on behalf of paulosperneta@gmail.com> wrote:
I knew they are theoretically self-appointed, but was under the impression that at least until now an appearance of democracy and legitimacy towards the community has been respected, which no longer seems to be the
case.
I wonder what would be the legitimacy of a self-appointing body
in
the
eyes of the Wikimedia Movement, and all the communities which are part
of
it?
Regards, Paulo
Adam Wight adam.wight@wikimedia.de escreveu no dia quarta, 7/10/2020 à(s) 17:20:
Greetings, this is a semiautomated response pointing out that
the
Wikimedia Foundation Board is not elected, it's
self-appointing.
The
so-called "elections" are in fact nominations to be considered
by
the
Board. Therefore, the Bylaws have not been broken.
This is an unfortunate arrangement, please see [1] for some
background
about the conversion from a membership organization to a
non-membership
organization which is no longer legally required to hold
elections.
Regards,
Adam W. [[mw:User:Adamw]]
[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_membership_controversy
On 10/7/20 5:55 PM, Paulo Santos Perneta wrote: > The terms of 3 BoT members expired last month, and the BoT
itself
decided
> to extend them? What is the legitimacy of that? And why is a
BoT
which is
> expected to be in a mere interim management waiting for
elections,
> presenting profound changes to its Bylaws [1]? > > [1] - >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/Octob...
> > Best, > Paulo > > Nataliia Tymkiv ntymkiv@wikimedia.org escreveu no dia
quarta,
7/10/2020 > à(s) 16:49: > >> Hello, >> >> I can answer a few of the questions raised in this thread. >> >> When the Board postponed the community selection of
trustees,
we
also
>> extended the terms of the trustees in the affected seats
(María
Sefidari, >> Dariusz Jemielniak, and James Heilman)[1]. Their terms were
originally
set >> to expire last month, but because of that term extension
they
are
still
>> serving as trustees, and as such María remains the Board
Chair
and
Dariusz >> and James continue on as Committee Chairs[2]. >> >> Raju Narisetti and Esra'a Al Shafei have been reappointed to
the
Board
for >> an additional three-year term[3][4]. >> >> The current members of the Board of Trustees are listed on
the
Wikimedia
>> Foundation website[5]. >> >> We do not currently have a shortage of trustees on the
Board,
and
we
have >> had a quorum for every decision we have made this year. We
have
published >> some outstanding Board records, many of which were just
approved
at our
>> recent meeting in September[6][7]. >> >> I have just sent an email to this list, as well as posted an
update to
>> Meta-Wiki, with a request for feedback on matters related to
the
>> Foundation’s Bylaws and trustee selection[8]. That
announcement
contains
>> more information about the postponed community selection of
trustees.
>> >> Best regards, >> >> antanana / Nataliia Tymkiv >> >> Vice Chair, Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees >> >> [1] >> >>
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Postponement_of_Community_S...
>> >> >> [2] >> >>
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Board_Officers_and_Committe...
>> >> >> [3] >> >>
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Renewing_Raju_Narisetti%27s...
>> >> >> [4] >> >>
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Renewing_Esra%27a_Al_Shafei...
>> >> >> [5] https://wikimediafoundation.org/role/board/ >> >> >> [6] https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings >> >> >> [7] https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolutions >> >> [8] >> >>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/Octob...
>> < >>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/July_...
>> >> *NOTICE: You may have received this message outside of your
normal
working >> hours/days, as I usually can work more as a volunteer during
weekend.
You >> should not feel obligated to answer it during your days off.
Thank you
in >> advance!* >> >> >> >> On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 9:52 PM Bill Takatoshi <
billtakatoshi@gmail.com>
>> wrote: >> >>> After I asked my questions on September 4, I was sent the
message
>>> below by some role account I've never heard of, asking
about
claims
>>> that have used the names of five other people. I don't edit
under my
>>> real name, but I have never used the names in the linked
forum
>>> postings. >>> >>> The linked posts also claim that the Foundation's nonprofit
status is
>>> at risk. I am not a lawyer, but I am skeptical of that
claim
even
>>> though five Trustees whose three-year terms expired in
August
>>> apparently voted on a Resolution in a Board meeting on
September
>>> According to Section 4 of the Bylaws, "A quorum shall
consist
of
a
>>> majority of Trustees then in office." Section 6 says, "the
Board
may
>>> continue doing business as a Board during the vacancy of
any
Trustee
>>> position." Therefore, since four of the five remaining
Trustees
all
>>> voted in favor, the Resolution was properly carried, in my
layperson's
>>> view. I am less certain about the propriety of allowing a
Trustee
>>> whose three year term expired to continue to serve as
Chair.
>>> >>> The lack of any update or even ETA for an update on >>> >>> >>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2020#Pos...
>>> is baffling. Elections have never been held in person, only
online,
>>> and so the excuse that they were postponed because of the
pandemic
>>> crisis seems extremely suspicious. Indefinitely delaying
elections for
>>> such a vacuous reason makes the Foundation look like the
worst
of the
>>> bad actors in today's international political climate.
Doesn't
the
>>> cancelled travel of the pandemic crisis give the Foundation
more
time
>>> to hold elections, not less? Whether non-profit status is
at
risk or
>>> not, I would hope that the Foundation, Board, and Elections
Committee
>>> would be more interested in upholding the principles of
good
>>> governance than failing to even announce a new schedule or
even
a date
>>> by which a new schedule will be announced. >>> >>> -Will >>> >>> On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 10:31 PM Gender Desk <
genderscribe@gmail.com>
>>> wrote: >>>> Mr. Takatoshi, >>>> >>>> Wikipediocracy has suggested that you have also used the
names
"Rogol
>>> Domedonfors, Renée Bagslint, Jennifer Pryor-Summers,
Felicity
Braingut,
>>> Thomas Townsend and others." >>> http://wikipediocracy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=11567 >>>> Can you comment on that? >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Genderdesk >>>> >>>> genderdesk.wordpress.com >>> >>> On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 7:38 PM Samuel Klein <
meta.sj@gmail.com>
wrote: >>>> Can anyone from the elections committee comment? What is
the
current
>>>> plan? //S >>>> On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 8:05 PM Bill Takatoshi < billtakatoshi@gmail.com >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> How long can the Foundation legally postpone Board of
Trustees
>>> elections? >>>>> >>>>> >>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2020#Pos...
>>>>> has a comment from April saying, "Once things get moving
again,
>>>>> appopriate [sic] date for the election will be decided
and
an
>>>>> announcement will be made." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_of_Trustees#Curre...
>>>>> suggests that five board members terms end on "Wikimania
2020"
-- but
>>>>> is that accurate? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Term_Limit_Proposal_for_Byl...
>>>>> is clear that "All Board terms are three years" and "the
term
of each
>>>>> such appointment shall not exceed three years." >>>>> >>>>> Who are the current members of the Board of Trustees? >>>>> >>>>> Can the board achieve a quorum in its present state? >>>>> >>>>> Who is the Chair currently? >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> Samuel Klein @metasj w:user:sj
+1
617 529
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