False dichotomy Cheers, P
-----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Rogol Domedonfors Sent: Saturday, 29 April 2017 9:46 PM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [PRESS] Turkish authorities block Wikipedia
Richard
Then you want to say "We the undersigned do not [etc]". Of course the implication is that everyone else does ...
"Rogol"
On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 8:42 PM, Richard Farmbrough < richard@farmbrough.co.uk> wrote:
Primarily this is those who sign the statement on meta.
On 29 Apr 2017 20:41, "Rogol Domedonfors" domedonfors@gmail.com wrote:
James
If you cannot say who "We" are who do not support terrorism, then your statement is both meaningless and ineffectual. If you are specific, then "we" need to know why you feel able to speak for "us".
"Rogol"
On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 8:33 PM, James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com wrote:
@ Richard Thank you. I have adjusted that sentence to "We do not
support
terrorism."
J
On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 1:19 PM, Richard Farmbrough < richard@farmbrough.co.uk> wrote:
"As a movement" is a phrase which I have trouble with. WhiIe left it
is
very easy to make apple pie statements with little fear of
contradiction, I
think it misees the point. We provide information, neutral
information.
Perhaps we hope as individuals this discourages rather than
encourages
certain forms of behaviour. But if we provided the information with
the
goal of, for example, opposing terrorism we would cease to be a
neutral,
reliable sourgent, thus defeating any such goal.
Conversely it is far more convincing to say that we don't support terrorism, that the statements are on their face absurd, that we
clearly
document the rise and fall of Isis, together with their actions both
in
the
Middle East and the wider world, and tother encourage anyone who
doubts
this to read our articles on the subject.
On 29 Apr 2017 19:52, "James Heilman" jmh649@gmail.com wrote:
Richard I am not sure I am clear on what you mean. We are not
impartial
to
everything. We oppose censorship and we oppose suppression of
freedom
of
information. I think it is also perfectly fine to state that we as
a
movement oppose terrorism.
Made a few more adjustments to this statement on meta
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Response_to_2017_ban_in_Turkey
James
On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 12:46 PM, Richard Farmbrough < richard@farmbrough.co.uk> wrote:
It is absolutely important to be clear that Wikipedia is
impartial,
or
at
least substantially so. This impartiality may be a threat to
some,
but
it
could be counter-productive to make statements which are not
carefully
thought through. Those who support repressive regimes can easily
be
pushed
into an absolutist mindset.
On 29 Apr 2017 18:42, "Ivan Martínez" galaver@gmail.com wrote:
> +1 to Ting's idea about a statement > > Also we can support from our corner sending tweets and > e-mails
to
our
local > embassies. Our friends from Turkey or someone who speaks
turkish
can
> support us with a hasthag? I posted #WikipediaSansürlendi > but
maybe
is
> incorrect. > > Best, > > 2017-04-29 12:16 GMT-05:00 Ting Chen wing.philopp@gmx.de: > > > I think the Foundation and the chapters *must* make a
statement
that
> > decisively contradicts the reason of the block: That
Wikipedia
supports
> > terrorism. There could be further texts in the statement
which
stresses
> our > > principle of neutrality and our goal to spread > > knowledge, but
the
first
> and > > most important statement is to contradict the accusation. > > > > Ah some times I miss Jay, he would immediately recognize > > how
important
it > > is to make such a statement. When national newspapers > > and
broadcasts
are > > referring (I just heard the one in Deutschland Funk > > http://www.deutschlandfunk.de/dlf24-startseite.1441.de.h > > tml
)
this
> event, > > there should be not only the accusation but always also > > a
reaction.
> > > > Greetings > > > > Ting > > > > > > > > Am 29.04.2017 um 10:43 schrieb Itzik - Wikimedia Israel: > > > >> Hey, > >> > >> FYI - sad news from Turkish. > >> > >> > >> > >> *Regards,Itzik Edri* > >> Chairperson, Wikimedia Israel > >> +972-54-5878078 | http://www.wikimedia.org.il > >> Imagine a world in which every single human being can > >> freely
share
in
> the > >> sum of all knowledge. That's our commitment! > >> > >> > >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > >> From: Itzik - Wikimedia Israel itzik@wikimedia.org.il > >> Date: Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 11:42 AM > >> Subject: [PRESS] Turkish authorities block Wikipedia > >> To: Communications Committee > >> wmfcc-l@lists.wikimedia.org > >> > >> > >> http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39754909 > >> > >> Reuters just published that a 15 minutes ago, so it > >> will be
soon
all
> over > >> the news. > >> > >> > >> --- > >> > >> *Turkey has blocked all access inside the country to > >> the
online
> >> encyclopaedia Wikipedia, one of the world's most > >> popular
websites.*
> >> > >> It was not initially clear why the ban had been imposed. > >> The Turkey Blocks group said the site was inaccessible > >> from
08:00
(05:00 > >> GMT) by order of the Turkish authorities. > >> People in the capital Istanbul were unable to access > >> any
Wikipedia
pages > >> without using a Virtual Private Network (VPN). > >> "After technical analysis and legal consideration based > >> on
the
Law
Nr.
> >> 5651, an administrative measure has been taken for this
website,"
> Turkey's > >> Information and Communication Technologies Authority > >> was
quoted
as
> saying. > >> No reason was given. > >> Turkey Blocks and Turkish media, including the Hurriyet
Daily
News,
said > >> the provisional order would need to be backed by a full
court
ruling
in > >> the > >> next few days. > >> > >> Social media was in uproar as news of the ban emerged, > >> with
some
users
> >> speculating that it might be a bid to suppress > >> criticism on
President
> >> Recep > >> Tayyip Erdogan's Wikipedia page. > >> Mr Erdogan narrowly won a controversial 16 April > >> referendum
on
> increasing > >> his powers, but the issue has deeply divided the country. > >> Turkey has temporarily blocked popular social media > >> sites
including
> >> Facebook and Twitter in the past, especially in the > >> wake of
mass
> protests > >> or terror attacks. > >> The government has previously denied censoring the > >> internet,
blaming
> >> outages on spikes in usage after major events. > >> > >> > >> > >> *Regards,Itzik Edri* > >> Chairperson, Wikimedia Israel > >> +972-54-5878078 <+972%2054-587-8078> |
> >> Imagine a world in which every single human being can > >> freely
share
in
> the > >> sum of all knowledge. That's our commitment! > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik > >> i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
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