On 06/20/2011 07:25 PM, MZMcBride wrote:
Milos Rancic wrote:
After a month of on-list talk -- sometimes very heated, sometimes very quiet -- Language committee has agreed about the next wording of the part of the new policy [1] related to the simple languages:
- Can there be wikis in "simple" languages?
*: Yes, in principle. But two special criteria would need to be met: the language should be a "world language" with many L2 users, and there must be a reliable, published specification of the controlled language to be used. Examples are [[w:en:Basic English|Basic English]] and [[w:fr:Français fondamental|Français fondamental]]. (In reality it does not appear that there ''are'' many controlled languages other then English and French.)
I thought nearly everyone, except a few people who edit the Simple projects, agreed that their creation was a horrible mistake and that they only continue to exist as a byproduct of history. Half of the Simple English projects (Wikibooks and Wikiquote) have been closed (Simple English Wikiquote was a legendary horror); only Simple English Wikipedia and Simple English Wiktionary remain. Given this, it seems rather "out of left field" for the Language Committee to try to suddenly declare that it's acceptable to have new simple forms. Has anything changed outside of the Committee that triggered this?
The change has happened, actually, inside of the committee. As you could see as a LangCom observer, the dominant emotion toward projects in simple languages is antagonistic among LangCom members. My personal position is not the exception.
However, during the meeting in Berlin two members of LangCom, Michael and Anthony, both of them linguists, have convinced other of us that there *is* scientific basis of Simple English.
Speaking for myself, if there is a scientific basis, I have no problem to allow such project. (Of course, if other requirements would be fulfilled.)
The logical line of my thoughts was to allow *any* project in simple (or equivalent) language if there is a scientific basis. Mostly because there could be created valid communities around non-world-languages with large number of speakers (German and Japanese are examples).
However, dominant position of the rest of the committee is that it should be allowed just for world languages. So, it's the agreed LangCom's position toward the new policy.
In practice, it means that:
- It is likely that just Wikipedia in simple French would be approved.
If there are reliable and published specifications of other world languages (Russian, Spanish, Arabic etc.), group interested in creating project in simple language has to present it to the LangCom.
This has come up a few times before and as I recall, the French in particular considered a simple version of their language to be an abomination. What's the process for a "new language" project? Would current French Wikipedia contributors have an opportunity to object to a new simple French Wikipedia or a new simple French Wiktionary?
First of all, as it is not about usual request, proposers for Simple French Wikipedia, which is the only one with good chances to pass, would have to convince us that their intention is genuine and that they are not trolls who want to create a fork of French Wikipedia.
As usual, discussion would be held on Meta. If there are serious arguments against creation of Simple French Wikipedia, we would consider them, of course. However, "arguments" like "I don't like simple projects" won't be counted.