*A real time feed wouldn't be a smart idea neither would only new links. New external links are probably the most reliable ones.
*After reading this part i am not entirely certain if you caught my drift correctly, or if you missed it somehow. In case you understood it correctly apologies for stating it again.* *What i intended to say was that we should forward a completely list of all external links to IA, in the form of the External Links database table. This means that all current links would be known to IA, and could therefor be checked. Because such a table would be large to transfer, we could opt to forward the changes to it once a day, which would result in a lot less data traffic having to be send. In other words - IA would have a complete list of all external links on Wikipedia, and that list would be updated once a day (Removing all links no longer used, while equally adding links added that day). * Ideally, there should be a way to redirect to older versions of a page* *through an internal template to include before any dead links. I think that would be the easiest way to implement a change without any technical overhaul. * Keep in mind that this partnership suggestion seems to focus on this: *Greatly increase the odds that anything linked from Wikipedia would also be in our Archive*. The feed towards them is simply a means to flag "Important" pages so that they are crawled more often, or at least crawled once they are reported which would increase their change of being saved in the archive. How we subsequently handle this stored data is another, but still different concern. Even so we do have several related templates already (Herehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Deadlink).
~Excirial* * On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 1:00 AM, theo10011 de10011@gmail.com wrote:
A real time feed wouldn't be a smart idea neither would only new links. New external links are probably the most reliable ones, if they dont work today then theres probably no point in preserving them. Link rot is the biggest problem here, external links which might be 5-6 years old or more. I suggested DeadURL.com because it re-directs to previous versions maintained by other archives after including *deadurl.com/ *in front of the dead link.
Ideally, there should be a way to redirect to older versions of a page through an internal template to include before any dead links. I think that would be the easiest way to implement a change without any technical overhaul.
Theo
On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 3:47 AM, Excirial wp.excirial@gmail.com wrote:
*What would it take to produce such a feed?**
A real-time feed may or may not be the best idea, for several reasons.
- One issue is that every edit would have to be examined not only for
external links, but for external links that were not present previously. Doing this real-time may cause slowdowns or additional load for the
servers
- keep in mind that we would have to scan external links on all edits for
all Wikipedia's; Counted together this would result in a very, very busy feed towards IA.
- Sometimes added links are spam or otherwise not acceptable, which means
they may be removed soon after. In such a case man would prefer not
having
them archived, since it would be a waste of time and work for IA.
An alternate solution could be forwarding a list of new links every day. The Database Layout<
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/41/Mediawiki-database-schema...
for
Wikimedia seems to sugest that all external links are stored in a separate table in the database (And i presume this includes links in reference tags). I wonder if it would be possible to dump this entire
table
for IA, and afterwards send incremental change packageshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Changesetto them (Once a day perhaps?). That way they would always have a list of external links used by Wikipedia, and it would decrease the problem with performance hits, spam and links no longer used. If we only forwarded a feed with NEW links IA might end up with a long list of links which are
removed
over time. And above everything - the External Links table is simply a database table, which should be incredibly easy to read and process for
IA,
without custom coding required to read and store a feed.
But perhaps the people at the tech mailing list have another \ better
idea
on how this should work :)
~Excirial
On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 9:48 AM, Samuel Klein meta.sj@gmail.com wrote:
Gordon @ IA was most friendly and helpful. archive-it is a subscription service for focused collections of sites; he had a different idea better suited to our work.
Gordon writes:
Now, given the importance of Wikipedia and editorial significant of
things
it outlinks-to, perhaps we could set up something specially focused
on
its
content (and the de facto stream of newly-occurring outlinks), that
would
require no conscious effort by editors but greatly increase the odds
that
anything linked from Wikipedia would (a few months down the line)
also
be
in our Archive. Is there (or could there be) a feed of all outlinks
that
IA
could crawl almost nonstop?
That sounds excellent to me, if possible (and I think close to what emijrp had in mind!) What would it take to produce such a feed?
SJ
PS - An aside: IA's policies include taking down any links on request, so this would not be a foolproof archive, but a 99% one.
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 9:13 PM, Samuel Klein meta.sj@gmail.com
wrote:
I've asked Gordon Mohr @ IA about how to work with archive-it. I
will
cc: this thread on any response.
SJ
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 8:56 PM, George Herbert george.herbert@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 5:48 PM, Samuel Klein meta.sj@gmail.com
wrote:
Here's the Archive's on-demand service:
That would be the most reliable way to set up the partnership
emijrp
proposes. And it's certainly a good idea. Figuring out how to
make
it work for almost all editors and make it spam-proof may be interesting.
SJ
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 8:45 PM, Ray Saintonge <
saintonge@telus.net>
wrote:
> David Gerard wrote: >> On 24 August 2010 14:57, emijrp emijrp@gmail.com wrote: >> >>> I want to make a proposal about external links preservation.
Many
times,
>>> when you check an external link or a link reference, the website
is
dead or
>>> offline. This websites are important, because they are the
sources
for the
>>> facts showed in the articles. Internet Archive searches for
interesting
>>> websites to save in their hard disks, so, we can send them our
external
>>> links sql tables (all projects and languages of course). They
improve their
>>> database and we always have a copy of the sources text to check
when
needed.
>>> I think that this can be a cool partnership. >>> >> +1 >> >> > Are people who clean up dead links taking the time to check
Internet
> Archive to se if the page in question is there? > > > Ec > > _______________________________________________ > foundation-l mailing list > foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
-- Samuel Klein identi.ca:sj w:user:sj
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I actually proposed some form of Wikimedia / IArchive link collaboration some years ago to a friend who worked there at the
time;
however, they left shortly afterwards.
I like SJ's particular idea. Who has current contacts with Brewster Kahle or someone else over there?
-- -george william herbert george.herbert@gmail.com
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-- Samuel Klein identi.ca:sj w:user:sj
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