I agree, but I have said that in Italy this situation is "normal". The "Limba Sarda Comune" (translation is "Sardinian common language") is not a spoken language.
Some "collections" of languages has invented a superlanguage to write official documents. The "Limba Sarda Comune" is similar to the Romansh as "status". It has been invented (as Romansh) as official language of a Region:
"Recentemente (2006), La Regione Autonoma della Sardegna ha individuato una varietà scritta mediana del sardo, denominata Limba Sarda Comuna (LSC) da usare nei suoi documenti ufficiali in uscita, con carattere quindi di coufficialità. La LSC si propone come varietà intermedia tra le due varietà di sardo letterario già esistenti (Campidanese e Logudorese)."
The Limba Sarda is a superlanguage, created by the "Regione Autonoma of Sardinia" combining Campidanese and Logudorese (two of for sardinian dialects, but the more diffused) and it is used in official documents. This is the first step to create a language: from dialect to enrichment of registries.
See here:
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immagine:Lingue_di_Sardegna_mod.gif
the orange parts cover Campidanese and Logudorese.
The Gallurese is the third sardinian dialect closest to Corse Language, the Sassarese (spoken in a small part of Sardinia) is the fourth dialect in middle of Limba Sarda and Corse Language.
You understand that is crazy to have a wikipedia in a dialect that has not a grammar and not a dictionary well defined (Wikipedia is written and not spoken). Probably the Sardinia Region has had the some problem and for this reason has invented a "written" language.
Ilario
On 9/10/07, GerardM gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
Hoi, What you write is completely beside the point. At issue is Sardinian and Sassarese not Romansh or Lombard. As far as the language committee is concerned, there are four Sardinian languages and none of them is the Limba Sarda Comune.
We are quite adamant that a language needs recognition as such. There are many issues with regard to this kind of recognition but the most relevant part is that it is a process that takes time and involves many experts. It takes so much time because the standard organisations do their best to get it right. Where you describe dialects within a languages, it is not specific to Italian languages. The issue of some people trying to come to a "unified" language is not unique to Sardinia either.
Thanks, GerardM
On 9/10/07, Ilario Valdelli valdelli@gmail.com wrote:
Sardinian is a collection of different dialects spoken in Sardinia.
The environment is similar to Romansh (which is a collection of different languages as Surmiran, Sursilvan etc.) with the difference that the super-language Romansh is officially recognized and has got a grammar and a dictionary.
The problem is generated because it's not clear what is language and what is dialect.
Using dialect in some environment like Europa you could have differences between two closest town. The nuances are very strong and the language is not stable (there differences during the years and influences).
The Lumbard (lmo.wikipedia.org) for example has got hundred different dialects and not a superlanguage officially recognized, and two different speakers of two lumbard dialect are not completely understandable each other.
Ilario
On 9/10/07, GerardM gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
There is a Wikipedia in the Sardinian languagehttp://sc.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C3%A0gina_printzipale. It uses the sc ISO-639-1 code. What was known as Sardinian became srd in
the
ISO-639-2. In the ISO-639-3 it was recognised as a macrolanguagehttp://www.sil.org/iso639-3/scope.asp#M; practically what was called Sardinian was split into four languageshttp://www.sil.org/iso639-3/documentation.asp?id=srd .
The Italian government has officially recognised the Sardinian language
or
the "Limba Sarda Comune". This is in essence a constructed language as
it
tries to make one language out of the four "dialects". One of the
effects
has been that some people prevent others from writing in one of the four languages on the sc.wikpedia.
The language committee of the Wikimedia Foundation has a request to
approve
a new language; one of the Sardinian languages, Sassarese with ISO code
sdc.
There are two problems to deal with:
- The "Limba Sarda Comune" is not recognised as a language
- The proponents of the "Limba Sarda Comune" reserve the
sc.wikipediafor their language
This issue is political. The first thing that I understand when you go
to
the official website http://www.sardegnacultura.it/linguasarda/ is the notion of identity and indeed, to create one Sardinian identity it would
be
instrumental to have a unifying language. However, the map of the
Sardinian
languages http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Lingue_di_Sardegna_mod.gif
is
clear, the island is divided in four.
Given that the language committee has as one of its rules that political arguments are not accepted, there are a few conclusions that we should
make.
- Sassarese can have a conditional approval
- We urge the proponents of the Limba Sarda Comune to ask for the
recognition of this newly constructed language from ISO.
I have had a chat with Debbie Garside<
http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Advisory_board#Debbie_Garside%3Eabout
all this, and I understand that it is necessary to apply for an ISO-639-3 code before an IANA language code is likely to be approved. At least fifty published works in the Limba Sarda Comune will be required. Thanks, GerardM _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
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