On May 28, 2014 7:09 PM, "Wil Sinclair" wllm@wllm.com wrote:
Thanks, I wasn't aware I could do this. I'm assuming that it would be obvious who was an employee at Wikimedia in the log, too. I posted the following to Wikipediocracy a few minutes ago:
" I may have misread which page the rev was on, or I misunderstood the person who said s/he revdeleted it in thinking that it had been revdeleted in the previous few minutes. This is exactly why I prefer public recorded forums. Now no one can go back to clear up the confusion. For all I know, I might have to apologize for a misunderstanding, and it would really suck if I somehow misrepresented things and didn't have any opportunity to straighten things out.
Of course, it is entirely on me. I knew that the IRC channels weren't logged, and that it was a bannable offense to log them (for those who aren't familiar with IRC, this essentially means that you aren't supposed to save conversations there; in most channels that's A-OK, but on all of the most used wikipedia channels it seems to be disallowed).
I think you may have misunderstood. Public logging is not allowed, but it's fine to keep logs for yourself.
I wouldn't mind public logging myself, by the way.
Next time I have a concern, I will take it to wikimedia-l
or one of the other mailing lists. As this example also shows, one can't be sure that the revs on a page within Wikimedia's wikis themselves won't be redacted after-the-fact. I'm not expressing an opinion about whether stuff should be redacted or on what grounds, but I am asserting that it is possible to do so. "
Your observation is correct. It is possible to delete revisions from history. This will be logged. I'm a little surprised you seem surprised by this. Am I misunderstanding what you mean?
There is a discussion about this issue there, as well. It can be followed at the link I posted earlier. Here's the last page of the discussion that includes the comment above: http://wikipediocracy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4680&p=96600#p9...
,Wil
On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 9:57 AM, Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
Wil, the deletion log of the page in question is publicly visible.
There
are no WMF employees who have deleted anything on that page, ever. This
is
information you can check for yourself instead of relying on the words
of
others.
Risker
On 28 May 2014 12:23, Wil Sinclair wllm@wllm.com wrote:
Hi Fae, if you're referring to the discussion on this page, then I think I make it quite clear why I won't engage with WMF employees going forward: http://wikipediocracy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4680&start=150.
To be sure, I'm not used to having anyone from Lila's team immediately emailing her through their official company addresses as soon as I ask a question in a public forum. In this case, the WMF has made it quite clear that the IRC channels aren't official and/or sponsored by the WMF, and I was asking about community affairs WRT to those channels. So my question about why a user was kicked from the channel didn't have anything to do with the WMF. I still don't understand why this employee felt it was necessary to bring Lila's attention to "safety concerns" through official WMF employee channels, although I'm sure he or she felt it was the right thing to do and I've given them the benefit of the doubt that it was. Of course, I can't form my own independent opinion, since a WMF employee revdeleted the rev in question in the ~10 minutes between when it was first posted and when I tried clicking on the link.
In any case, it should be made clear that the WMF did not ask me to disengage with employees and has not yet asked me to stop posting to Wikipediocracy directly. So far, the organization itself has respected my individuality; I can only appeal to everyone in the WP community and all WMF employees to do the same in the future. I will be engaging with the broader WP community in whatever way I can, but I've made the hard decision to limit my engagement with WMF employees to public, logged forums from now on.
,Wil
On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 5:59 AM, Fæ faewik@gmail.com wrote:
On 28/05/2014, Lila Tretikov lila@wikimedia.org wrote: ...
independent individual able to speak with his own voice and ask his own questions. He does
not
take direction from me. He will not work for the WMF or engage with
the
WMF
employees.
Thanks for making these distinctions. It is sad to see that your time and energy is being used so early on in your introduction to the Wikimedia community, in creating a political distance between
yourself
and the public actions of your life partner, due to his casual curiosity about Wikimedia projects. A curiosity that only manifested itself shortly after the public announcement of your employment by
the
Foundation board.
I do not really understand the point being made about not "engaging" with WMF employees, any active volunteer on Wikimedia projects should and must be free to engage with WMF employees. The statement does not appear to match actions over the last 24 hours, with Wil freely
making
public comments about his dissatisfaction after conversations (emails?) with some WMF employees.
Thanks again for clarifying your position during this difficult start to your engagement.
Fae
faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org<
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/GuidelinesWikimedia-l@lists.wi...
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe