Hi Tom
Thanks for your contribution. However, you seem to have missed the point.
So Lisa violates the 3RR principle and you lecture me. And I lodge a complaint over the 3RR and that gets closed without due process.
Would you care to touch on those tho aspects and advance your opinion on the 3RR violation being swept under the carpet? And reporting of a 3RR violation being swept under the same carpet?
I must presume that you condone the action of the other editor?
And for your information, everytime I have come across people that monitor even the talkpage of their favourite articles you can be sure that it is about the content of what is posted, but about whether or not the comment casts the subject of the article in a bad light.
Perhaps you might care to look into this and look into the edit history of these editors?
Regards,
Rui
On 5 September 2013 14:18, Thomas Morton morton.thomas@googlemail.comwrote:
Lets just be clear here, the contributuion Rui is talking about was as follows:
Must be a joke - how can moving from W8 to W XP be called a downgrade? W8 is crap! I want a computer, not a basket of "apps" for retarded morons!< https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Windows_XP&oldid=5715337...
His response to its removal is to suggest those removing it are paid Pro-Microsoft editors.
Rui, what I'm going to suggest here is that you've not really understood the processes that go into collaborating on an article. You may well be right that the content needs changing, but your presentation of a personal opinion in such a ranting form makes it very hard to collaborate.
Look at it from another side. If you'd put a lot of effort into writing and article and then someone turned up on the talk page to post what looked like a personal rant about the content, citing no sources and putting very little in the way of suggested changes.... would you be peeved? Would you wonder if perhaps that editor was a paid editor sent to disrupt the article by a competitor?
Would you be offended if Lisa held that view about you (that you were a paid advocate?).
So, yes, Wikipedia has a big problem. But it's not just abusive admins (we have a few) and grumpy editors, or paid advocates. It is a broad spectrum of problems - and in this case you were the one with the less-than-perfect contribution.
Broadly speaking this is an education problem; we need to bring more focus on the concept of the talk page as a collaboration portal *not* as a place to discuss the topic (i.e. NOTFORUM) and we also need to emphasise the importance of making comments in the right tone, and with supporting sources.
Regards, Tom
On 4 September 2013 22:08, Rui Correia correia.rui@gmail.com wrote:
Greetings to All
Let me start by saying that I don't do much here at the WP, not compared
to
people who make hundreds of edits a week. I would love to, have a long
list
of "to-do", but unfortunately time is not on my side.
In my limited involvemet here, I have seen many a good editor leave the project. Mostly, people leave because they can't take it anymore having
to
fight the 'blocks' of defenders that coalesce around certain topics.
In itself, though not very healthy, such blocks forming around topis is fine. What is not fine is that if any issue gets referred to a higher process for a resolution, it is often the same people grouping of people previously involved in disputes on the same topic who come to the resolution forum to issue a decision. However, it is always the
'outsider'
that loses. He gets acused of everything under the sun, and gets 'good advice' from supposedly neutral editors, urging him to calm down, to
temper
his language etc. It is like trying to point out that the earth is round
at
a monthly meetng of the fat-earthers. That is not healthy and is making
the
WP processes look like a kangaroo court run by a cabal.
And I expect pretty much the same reaction to this email.
I pointed out in an ealier email to this list the difficulty that one encounters when you include something negative about certain big corporations. I was stoned and made to feel that I was wrong and everbody else was right. The reaction was tantamount to a chorus of "yes, we know there are problems, but don't say it out loud, someone might hear you!".
Let's for argument's say that I was wrong. But - more importantantly -
was
anything done to investigate what I was saying? What if there are legions out there paid to sanitise the pages of big corporations? And we know
that
they exist, and that WP has taken up the issue as in here,
http://nick-xomba-ceo.xomba.com/microsoft_accused_of_paying_blogger_to_alter...
I made a silly remark on a Talk page about the choice of the word "downgrade" to refer to people using Windows 8 who wanted to go back to
XP.
For a failed product, by Microsoft's own admission, going back to XP is
an
upgrade, going back to sanity, not a downgrade.
I was first accused of trolling, then something else, then of offending
the
entire community of users of Windows 8. The editor who is adamant - not
the
first time - to purge ant-MS from the talkpage violated the 3RR, but nothing gets done about it. I reported the 3RR, and it was immediately closed, labelled as being relatiatory. There is a backlog of issues on
that
page, but my entry was closed within minutes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Edit_w...
It was closed, claiming that it was already being addressed elsewhere.
So, I too will consider my stay here. Like I said right at the top, I
don't
do much here, so I am certain I will not even be missed. I edit in eight languages, small little bits here and there. I participated in a number
of
initiaves on the development of Chapters in Africa and am happy to see
that
things are moving. I had the honour and privilege to meet Jimmy Wales in South Africa and to discuss a few things relating to WP in Africa.
So, it is time to wind down anr retire into a corner. I am busy with a novel, I am sure that is where I should invest my time and energy.
Sincere regards to all, happy editing
Rui Correia
-- _________________________ Rui Correia Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Work Consultant Bridge to Angola - Angola Liaison Consultant
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