I don't think it is possible, in a worldwide organization like the Wikis, to be reliant on "where the loyalties of many of these so-called "problematic" editors reside". I think that the Wiki-organization in itself must be responsible that the Wiki-users are not abused or harassed, just because they do not belong to the same "group" as these "problematic" editors" do.
I think that the contemporary organization (or lack of organization) reflects a very naive view of how people interact in a society. It is like believing that you don't need a police organization in an ordinary society because people can handle all conflicts among themselves. That is very naive and has often led to the creation of criminal organizations like the Mafia and worse.
Also the Wiki-world needs to protect its "inhabitants" from abuse and mobbing, and therefore needs an organization that can fulfil these duties.
Regards, Lars Gardenius
________________________________ Von: Josh Lim jamesjoshualim@yahoo.com An: Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Gesendet: 6:01 Donnerstag, 5.September 2013 Betreff: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from itself
I think what we need to consider here is where the loyalties of many of these so-called "problematic" editors reside, whether their dedication to maintaining the content where their expertise has been valuable has been harmful to the overall health of the community. While I think we are all on the side of Wikipedia here and we all have a genuine interest in improving the encyclopedia for everyone, we have gone to the point where we have started to perpetuate the idea that some are better at it than others, similar to that declaration in Animal Farmthat "all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others".
There are many reasons as to why this is the case, but I guess we need to reiterate the need for us to break down barriers here, both between ourselves as editors (step away from compartmentalizing ourselves into spaces where everyone else will agree with us because we are familiar with them), and between ourselves as people. The latter, however, is very difficult to do, and it is one of the challenges that we have to face if we will want to assure Wikipedia's future success.
Regards,
Josh
JAMES JOSHUA G. LIM Block I1, AB Political Science Major in Global Politics, Minor in Chinese Studies Class of 2013, Ateneo de Manila University Quezon City, Metro Manila, Philippines
Trustee (2010-2013), Wikimedia Philippines Member, Ateneo Debate Society Member, The Assembly
jamesjoshualim@yahoo.com | +63 (927) 531-8301 Friendster/Facebook/Twitter: akiestar | Wikimedia: Sky Harbor http://akira123323.livejournal.com
________________________________ From: Rui Correia correia.rui@gmail.com To: Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2013 5:08 AM Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from itself
Greetings to All
Let me start by saying that I don't do much here at the WP, not compared to people who make hundreds of edits a week. I would love to, have a long list of "to-do", but unfortunately time is not on my side.
In my limited involvemet here, I have seen many a good editor leave the project. Mostly, people leave because they can't take it anymore having to fight the 'blocks' of defenders that coalesce around certain topics.
In itself, though not very healthy, such blocks forming around topis is fine. What is not fine is that if any issue gets referred to a higher process for a resolution, it is often the same people grouping of people previously involved in disputes on the same topic who come to the resolution forum to issue a decision. However, it is always the 'outsider' that loses. He gets acused of everything under the sun, and gets 'good advice' from supposedly neutral editors, urging him to calm down, to temper his language etc. It is like trying to point out that the earth is round at a monthly meetng of the fat-earthers. That is not healthy and is making the WP processes look like a kangaroo court run by a cabal.
And I expect pretty much the same reaction to this email.
I pointed out in an ealier email to this list the difficulty that one encounters when you include something negative about certain big corporations. I was stoned and made to feel that I was wrong and everbody else was right. The reaction was tantamount to a chorus of "yes, we know there are problems, but don't say it out loud, someone might hear you!".
Let's for argument's say that I was wrong. But - more importantantly - was anything done to investigate what I was saying? What if there are legions out there paid to sanitise the pages of big corporations? And we know that they exist, and that WP has taken up the issue as in here, http://nick-xomba-ceo.xomba.com/microsoft_accused_of_paying_blogger_to_alter...
I made a silly remark on a Talk page about the choice of the word "downgrade" to refer to people using Windows 8 who wanted to go back to XP. For a failed product, by Microsoft's own admission, going back to XP is an upgrade, going back to sanity, not a downgrade.
I was first accused of trolling, then something else, then of offending the entire community of users of Windows 8. The editor who is adamant - not the first time - to purge ant-MS from the talkpage violated the 3RR, but nothing gets done about it. I reported the 3RR, and it was immediately closed, labelled as being relatiatory. There is a backlog of issues on that page, but my entry was closed within minutes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Edit_w...
It was closed, claiming that it was already being addressed elsewhere.
So, I too will consider my stay here. Like I said right at the top, I don't do much here, so I am certain I will not even be missed. I edit in eight languages, small little bits here and there. I participated in a number of initiaves on the development of Chapters in Africa and am happy to see that things are moving. I had the honour and privilege to meet Jimmy Wales in South Africa and to discuss a few things relating to WP in Africa.
So, it is time to wind down anr retire into a corner. I am busy with a novel, I am sure that is where I should invest my time and energy.
Sincere regards to all, happy editing
Rui Correia