As far as i know, it is the only project that the initiative Women in red contribute to, which is the initial subject of this thread.
It certainly is the only project where "Many of the competition articles will just get tagged CSD - A1, A7, A9 even G2" makes any sense. I am a sysop on several Wikimedia projects and participate in deletion regularly and I have no clue what CSD, A1, A7, A9 and even G2 are, which are part of the initial email of this thread, proving that it applies to only the English Wikipedia.
So my point stands. This is not a thread about "misogyny and under-representation of female editors" in general, even if it may have derived that way. The initial email and the few that followed clearly show that the authors were talking only about the English Wikipedia and showed zero interest in including the other projects in a meaningful general discussion about that issue, if not why using obscure terms that only pertain to that project?
That being said, I now thank Lodewijk for making it general and inclusive. It should have been the way this discussion was opened if it was really meant to be a more generic theme and wanted to be inclusive of the community as a whole.
JP
On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 1:57 PM, Robert Fernandez wikigamaliel@gmail.com wrote:
Is the English Wikipedia the only Wikipedia which has problems with misogyny and under-representation of female editors and articles? I am relieved to hear that!
On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 1:34 PM, Jean-Philippe Béland < jpbeland@wikimedia.ca
wrote:
There is so many threads on this list that are only about English
Wikipedia
like it is the centre of the world... Why other communities are able to keep their internal discussions internal and not this community?
Jean-Philippe Béland Vice President, Wikimedia Canada
On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 1:20 PM, Pax Ahimsa Gethen < list-wikimedia@funcrunch.org> wrote:
The people whose opinion should most matter in determining whether a comment is sexist are women. Not men, and not non-binary transmasculine people like myself.
I support and echo Emily and Molly's earlier comments on this thread:
Also, in case it's not clear from my forwarding of Emily's/Keilana's
message, I endorse it completely and am glad she made her points.
I agree fully with Keegan and Sydney. I don't think the concerns that
this
will be overtaken by bots are well-founded; that was planned for in
the
document outlining the competition, and editors involved in this
project
will be subject to all expectations of normal editors (including not mass-producing poor-quality content).
As for Keegan's original post, there is a major difference between describing an email as sexist versus labeling the sender as a sexist.
I
believe Keegan meant the former, and I'm not sure anything he's said
can
be described as an attack on the sender so much as a valid criticism of
poor
wording.
– Molly (GorillaWarfare)
On Sun, Oct 15, 2017 at 11:44 PM, GorillaWarfare
<gorillawarfarewikipedia@
gmail.com> wrote:
Emily (User:Keilana) is having some trouble getting mails through to
this
list, so I'm forwarding this on her behalf in case it's an issue with
her
email address.
"This is some sexist bullshit. You really think we can't handle some stubs? And do you really, really think that people won't try to AFD everything that comes out of this contest as it is?
I'm sick and tired of this idea that we have to hold shit about women
to a
higher standard than literally anything else. The encyclopedia isn't
going
to break because, god forbid, some inexperienced newbies write a bunch
of
stubs.
And so what if people think we're paying lip service to women? It's
better
than being seen as being actively hostile to women, which, as I
shouldn't
have to remind you, is our reputation as it currently stands."
– Molly (GorillaWarfare)
- Pax aka Funcrunch
On 10/16/17 10:11 AM, Todd Allen wrote:
Is that still going on?
I'm against sexism and all for improving coverage of women on
Wikipedia.
I've helped to encourage events toward that end, and they've turned
out
pretty well. We now have quite a few more articles, for example, on
women
involved as pioneers in outdoor sports and activities because of them.
But I'm unsure how asking the question "Is it wise to offer money in exchange for creating large numbers of articles without consideration
of
quality?" or "Will this effort have the intended result?" is sexist.
The
same question would apply if the proposed articles were about Russian literature or asteroids. It is not sexist to ask the question just
because
of what the subject happens to be.
I think that needs to be discussed, not sidetracked by calling people sexists. If people really were making sexist statements, I'd be all
for
shutting that crap down. But I've seen not one such statement in this thread.
Todd
On Oct 16, 2017 10:28 AM, "Robert Fernandez" wikigamaliel@gmail.com wrote:
So those who call out sexism are the real sexists, amirite?
I am fed up with this double standard in the way we talk about these issues. Some people are allowed to make broad, unsupported, sweeping generalizations about the motives and actions of others and that's considered just fine, but if you call them out in even the gentlest
tones
it's treated as some horrific personal attack, and censure and
apologies
are demanded. We've culturally internalized sexism so much that even
the
way we talk about sexism is sexist.
On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 11:28 AM, Vi to vituzzu.wiki@gmail.com
wrote:
But just a note: using the same behavior of phenomena you're trying
to
contast is, per se, a clear defeat. To be more clear, blind -because you obviously don't know *nothing* about their backgrounds- vilification of other's opinions is,
incidentally,
one the of the main instruments of "cultural" sexism.
-- Pax Ahimsa Gethen | pax@funcrunch.org | http://funcrunch.org |
Pronouns:
they/them/their
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik
i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
--
Jean-Philippe Béland
[image: Wikimedia Canada] Vice-président — Wikimédia Canada https://ca.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page?uselang=fr, chapitre national soutenant Wikipédia Vice president — Wikimedia Canada https://ca.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page?uselang=en, national chapter supporting Wikipedia 535 avenue Viger Est, Montréal (Québec) H2L 2P3,jpbeland@wikimedia.ca _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe