I really think that the main problem here is not automation but the problem Asaf pointed out: A small circle of people dictating the rules and who's allowed to participate and who isn't. Automation just perpetuates the cycle of those same people being in control of those processes.
On Mon, 13 May 2019 at 17:08, Samuel Klein meta.sj@gmail.com wrote:
I love this thread. Thank you to all participating in it...
Also: speeding these things with automation is also much easier once there is a quarantine where anyone can see flagged material without being an admin! SJ
On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 7:39 AM John Erling Blad jeblad@gmail.com wrote:
This is wrong: "The upload system allow you to upload something if you are the author. Period."
The system as it is now will allow anyone to upload a file given (s)he has the necessary rights. That does not imply the uploader being the author of the material.
Note that verifying whether the uploaded material already exist out on the web must be done before the file is made public, otherwise any attempt on detecting a copyviolation will fail. That would imply that a copyvio algorithm must be automated. The questionable material could still be uploaded, but then a permission should be forwarded to OTRS. Also, a report from the copyvio algorithm should be stored with the uploaded material, as it is impossible to retrace the detection after the material is made public.
On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 4:23 PM Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga galder158@hotmail.com wrote:
As I am the author of the post, some remarks:
- Commons is, indeed, the only [cloud] storage for file in most of
the Wikipedias. Making an accusation of using Commons as a storage place
is
unfair and nonsense.
- Communication could be better, of course, but we don't have to
think on experienced editors and wikimedians, but on people we are trying to convince to upload to the Commons and find this burden. They don't
know
how to communicate and why they must do it.
- The upload system allow you to upload something if you are the
author. Period.
- Claiming that something is a derivative work without saying which
is the original work is not a good practice.
- Of course, commons volunteers are few, and they have a great
job-queue. But outreach volunteers are less, and a project like this can take a whole year of volunteer work.
- After all the victim-blaming seen on this discussion no one was
able to point to a page where the procedure was clear for everyone.
Let's hope we can follow with this project next year and we will have
less problems.
Cheers
Galder ________________________________ From: Wikimedia-l wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org on behalf
of Vi to vituzzu.wiki@gmail.com
Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2019 3:35 PM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Dispute between Common and Outreach
I wonder wheter local sysops could be allowed to delete/undelete images
on
commons in order to reduce workload. Most risky commons' uploads come
from
cw-upload, allow local sysops to handle them could work.
Vito
Il giorno dom 12 mag 2019 alle ore 15:31 James Heilman <
jmh649@gmail.com
ha scritto:
It is hard to get the admin bit there aswell. Is Commons interested
in
having more admins?
James
On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 5:41 AM Fæ faewik@gmail.com wrote:
A couple of years ago a proposed project was for the WMF to pay for access to the Google image matching API access so we could run a copyvio bot on the live new uploads list. Such a bot would not be terribly hard to get working, and would be a great experiment to
see
if this aspect of the more boring side of sysop tools could be reduced.[1]
Not specifically advocating auto-deletion, but daily housekeeping image matches to highly likely copyrighted categories would make
mass
housekeeping very easy.
A separate old chestnut was my proposal to introduce systemic image hashes, which neatly show "close" image matches.[2] With a Commons
hat
on, such a project would be of far more immediate pragmatic use
than
mobile-related and structured data-related projects that seem to
suck
up all the oxygen and volunteer time available.
Note that the history of these project/funding ideas is so long,
that
several of the most experienced long term volunteers that were originally interested have since retired. Without some positive
short
term encouragement, not only do these ideas never reach the useful experiment stage, but the volunteers involved simply fade away.
Links
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump/Archive/2016/02#Goog...
Fae
On Sun, 12 May 2019 at 12:21, Amir Sarabadani <ladsgroup@gmail.com
wrote:
IMO commons need either a Clue Bot NG for new uploads or ores
support
for
images that might be copyright violation, or both.
Best
On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 1:10 PM Yaroslav Blanter <
ymbalt@gmail.com
wrote:
> Just the active community itself is too small, compared with
the
amount of
> material it has to deal with. > > Cheers > Yaroslav > > On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 1:07 PM Benjamin Ikuta <
benjaminikuta@gmail.com>
> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Is the shortage of admins due to a lack of people willing or
capable
to
> do > > the job, or increasing difficulty in obtaining the bit? > > > > > > > > On May 12, 2019, at 3:55 AM, Tomasz Ganicz <
polimerek@gmail.com>
wrote:
> > > > > Well, Actually, at the moment it looks they are all
undeleted.
> > > > > > The good habit - which I was keeping when organizing
several
> GLAM-related > > > mass uploads - was to create on Commons project page
describing
what it
> > is > > > intended to be uploaded, preferably in English. Then you
can
create a
> > > project template to mark all uploads with them. > > > > > > See:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Partnerships
> > > > > > Despite practical issue of avoiding unnecessary clashes
with
Common's
> > > admins - creating template and project page helps to
promote
you
> project > > > across Wikimedia communities and may inspire others to do
something
> > similar. > > > > > > Commons is indeed quite hostile environment for uploaders,
but on
the
> > other > > > hand it is constantly flooded by hundreds of copyright
violating
> files a > > > day: > > > > > > See the list from just one day: > > > > > > >
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/2019/05/01
> > > > > > so this hostility works both ways - Common's admins have to
cope
with
> > > aggressive hostile copyright violators every day, and after
some
time -
> > > decide to leave or became being hostile themselves... and
the
other
> issue > > > is decreasing number of active admins and OTRS agents. > > > > > > I think - sooner or later - all this system - uploads -
screening
> uploads > > > by admins, and OTRS agreements - needs deep rethinking. > > > > > > > > > niedz., 12 maj 2019 o 10:48 Mister Thrapostibongles < > > > thrapostibongles@gmail.com> napisał(a): > > > > > >> Hello all, > > >> > > >> There seems to be a dispute between the Outreach and the
Commons
> > components > > >> of The Community, judging by the article "Wikimedia
Commons: a
highly
> > >> hostile place for multimedia students contributions" at
the
Education
> > >> Newsletter > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >
https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/News/April_2019/Wikimedia_Comm...
> > >> > > >> As far as I can understand it, some students on an
Outreach
project
> > >> uploaded some rather well-made video material, and comeone
on
Commons
> > >> deleted them because they appeared to well-made to be
student
projects
> > and > > >> so concluded they were copyright violations. But some
rather
odd
> > remarks > > >> were made "Commons has to fight the endless stream of
uploaded
> > copyrighted > > >> content on behalf of a headquarters in San Francisco that
doesn't
> care." > > >> and > > >> "you have regarded Commons as little more than free cloud
storage
for
> > >> images you intend to use on Wikipedia ". > > >> > > >> Perhaps the Foundation needs to resolve this dispute? > > >> > > >> Thrapostibongles > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and
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