On Tue, Jun 17, 2014 at 12:51 PM, Nathan nawrich@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Jun 17, 2014 at 3:29 PM, George Herbert george.herbert@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Jun 17, 2014 at 12:07 PM, Nathan nawrich@gmail.com wrote:
I don't think the concept of the project is the problem. I'm skeptical
that
an "Uncommons" project built around fair use could be workable,
considering
that the validity of a fair use claim is context-specific and no
cross-wiki
project (like Commons) is going to have an easy time managing that requirement.
We don't have to. As a basic inclusion rule, someone justified an image
on
a fair-use project, and someone else wants to share it. If its use gets deleted on both those wikis (and anywhere else that started using it) due to not complying with fair use, and it stays out of use, we identify a cleanup procedure. But as long as a basically credible "it's fair use
over
here" exists for 1 or more projects, it's a candidate for Uncommons.
Uncommons should *never* see an image deleted out from under an article using it, for example. If someone feels it's not compliant with X wiki's local fair use criteria, they go to X wiki, argue the case, get it
removed
from the article(s). Uncommons would consider deletion if all the
projects
which tried to use it rejected it on fair use grounds.
Caveat that a copyright violation in the US, where the servers are, may still need to be removed even if fair-use in (for example) Argentina and Botswana apply, which is unfortunate, but we have a process for people to report copyvios of their images to the Foundation, and allowing OTRS to
do
their thing as usual would cover that.
So you want to split the role of "image repository" into two projects - one that is freely reusable for all possible reusers, and one that is useful in the first instance for all WMF projects and secondarily for anyone else using it in an educational context.
Ok, I get that. But there are some unanswered questions:
- Why would our "Uncommons" be superior to Flickr or any other repository
of images that can be used under fair use doctrine? Is it that we are categorizing them? That we might be able to select the "best" file for a particular usage, and replicate that out in context across projects?
Well, let's start with control and quality control.
If I put an illustration on Flickr, and you say "Oh, cool, great for Wikipedia article on Foo" and image linked it, I could take it down or change it. Minor modifications are one thing; me taking my Flickr and changing it from Nyan Cat to a pair of human female breasts, the day that the Wikipedia article on Foo was featured article of the day, is a big deal.
Another issue is copyright enforcement. On WMF projects, we have the consistent reporting and investigation mechanism under DMCA using OTRS or Legal (depending on how upset the complaintant is), with contextual understanding of WMF project usage, ability to see who and what articles depend on an image, etc. We have and take due responsibility with sensitivity to Context. For Flickr, they have no responsibility to us or our articles; they care only about their direct user and themselves. They may use much less stringent criteria for establishing that a copyright problem exists than OTRS does, for example.
I don't see Uncommons as a selection mechanism. I see it as a logical sharing mechanism for things that editors who are doing cross-wiki content pollination projects can use easily and painlessly. They're selecting what content from (mostly) larger wikis they want on smaller ones (and sometimes the other way around). This is just the one stop shopping location to put the common version in once you determine you'd like to use this image in five articles across five languages.
- How would Uncommons not fall prey to same set of issues that have beset
Commons for years? Copyright status would still need to be investigated to some degree, FUR would need to be policed at least a little, etc. etc.You'd attract the same people, probably, with the same biases and prejudices and problems.
Again - Uncommons is about usage. Usage of an Uncommons image on en.wikipedia needs to comply with english FUR policy. Use on the Malaysian wiki needs to comply with their standards, etc. Uncommons cares that the image is used somewhere. If it stops being used everywhere due to FUR issue then perhaps it should not be in Uncommons, but we should not be too hasty with that as perhaps other Wikis have less stringent local legal requirements and FUR policies and will come to use it later on.
So; remove if a valid copyright complaint comes in (OTRS / Legal), remove if it really truly is not being used anywhere anymore, otherwise the use/don't use is up to individual wikis and their policies.
We could centralize the fair use templates / justifications at Uncommons so people could see directly what the justifications were on particular wikis and articles, and under different local policies.
- EDP files on projects are currently already hosted by WMF, so what we're
really talking about is pushing them into the same bucket to focus curation resources. Considering the challenges, would it be better to just implement an easier common architecture for these files (i.e. make discovery of files from various projects simpler on any individual project)?
I think it's easier to do it this way. We have Commons special cased in; we can add Uncommons in parallel. The curation problem is about the same, on many levels, but the removal problem is much easier as the controversial free content issue just goes away.
Having a central location also avoids the scenario where it's uploaded to en.wikipedia, then reused on fr.wikipedia, and later investigation shows it's not FUR compliant on en.wikipedia and it gets removed despite being FUR compliant under fr.wikipedia policy. This is a nontrivial ongoing problem with Commons, and would be if people started directly interwiki grabbing images..
That's not a conclusive proof, but I think it's easier this way.