On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 9:55 AM, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
Hoi, I expected that it was obvious... Arguments that are based on desktop experiences are futile because the desktop experience is the lesser of two evils. The desktop experience is already bad, the experience on mobiles and tablets is much worse it is intolerably unusable,
I meant I didn't understand what you meant by "A mobile or tablet screen is increasingly not used in isolation."
Yes, you are overlooking stuff when you only consider inserting an isolated comment that may help. That is not the only problem and not even the main problem. Reading and analysing talk pages is already next to impossible in this environment therefore inserting an isolated comment does not help enough to make the experience at least bearable. Thanks, GerardM
Yeah, reading long intricate discussion on mobile sucks, but I'm not sure how Flow will help combat that - I'm very open to being shown a wider perspective. I'm still convinced that the primary difficulty in reading and analyzing long, intricate, branching discussions on mobile is caused by them being long, branching and intricate, not due to any software or rendering issues.
On 10 September 2014 09:47, Martijn Hoekstra martijnhoekstra@gmail.com wrote:
On Sep 10, 2014 9:35 AM, "Gerard Meijssen" gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
Hoi. When you look at talk pages in isolation, you look at them on a
computer
screen. A mobile or tablet screen is increasingly not used in
isolation.
I'm not sure what you mean by this.
It
is where we find our new users and editors. We cannot afford to ignore them; they are our future. This is why tinkering with talk pages is not
an
option. Moving away from talk pages because of mobiles and tablets is
the
killer reason why we need to move away from talk pages.
It is a killer reason because it makes all arguments to the contrary
pale
away. Thanks, GerardM
What I find most painful about talk pages on mobile (on the desktop skin, because so far I've been too impatient to find talk pages and edit functionality on mobile) have been that editing huge text areas really sucks (the scrolling and positioning the cursor is a huge pain). This is not limited to talk pages by the way, but is identical for mainspace
pages.
A reply button that inserts an isolated comment at the correct
indentation
level would fix that. Am I overlooking stuff?
On 10 September 2014 09:20, Martijn Hoekstra <
martijnhoekstra@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Sep 10, 2014 5:11 AM, "Keegan Peterzell" keegan.wiki@gmail.com
wrote:
On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 10:04 AM, Wil Sinclair wllm@wllm.com
wrote:
FWIW, I signed my first comment by hand. I missed the comments
about
sigs in the wikitext editor interface. If it weren't for my
family
situation, I'm pretty sure I would have bailed. In any case, it
was
much easier to engage at WO, and that was partly- but not mostly-
due
to the fact that they run discussion software over there.
,Wil
This - signing by hand - is pretty much a universal experience for
new
users, myself included.
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:History_of_Alaska&diff=p...
-- ~Keegan
I'm not saying that isn't crap and unwelcoming: it is, and it deters
new
users. But it's hardly the end of the world either. By signing the
wrong
way no real harm is done, if someone just tells you about the option
to
use
It's crap and archaic and should be fixed, but it's also an exampleof
the
idea that there are no mistakes on a wiki. So you did something not
right?
Great, that means you contributed. So we fix it (collaboratively) and improve your contribution, no harm done.
That said, auto sign and a reply button would be a *whole* lot
friendlier
than what we have now, and would be great improvements over the
current
situation.
Flow definitely has a reply button, and automatic signing as well,
but
I
can't help but think that just those features in isolation would be
better
then completely overhauling talk pages.
--Martijn