Hoi, May I ask what you mean with "the" community? If anything the Wikimedia community exists in some 300 parts and every parts has as many distinct opinions. There are essential conflicts of interest, by some there is a sense of entitlement, either based on possession or based on promises made.
In many ways, what Jan-Bart wrote at the time makes as much sense then as it made now. The model of self governance within a project works up to a point but when it is then pointed out to it where it fails to meet expectations, like it does when it is tasked to provide a safe environment, it fails spectacularly. There is plenty of evidence showing how the well fortified positions the English Wikipedia community among others has taken, fails our readers in providing the best possible quality.
So what community and why should we bother when it is not even that great as an abstraction. Thanks, GerardM
On Sat, 24 Aug 2019 at 17:48, Peter Southwood peter.southwood@telkomsa.net wrote:
Benjamin, Has the board or any member of the board made any statement suggesting that the board might overrule the community in this matter? Cheers, Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Benjamin Ikuta Sent: 24 August 2019 07:12 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: Draft recommendations are here!
It is disturbing that you would even consider overriding the community in such a massive way.
On Aug 23, 2019, at 9:44 PM, James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com wrote:
The board will be discussing this of course. We do not have a group position at this point in time.
J
On Fri, Aug 23, 2019 at 12:47 PM Jeff Hawke geoffey.hawke@gmail.com
wrote:
James
Thanks for that. As a member of the Board, would you clarify the
Board's
position on whether it is prepared to see the final Recommendations implemented irrespective of any disagreement from the community?
Jeff
On Fri, Aug 23, 2019 at 12:05 PM James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com
wrote:
I for one do not agree with Jan-Bart's prior position.
James
On Fri, Aug 23, 2019 at 4:40 AM Jeff Hawke geoffey.hawke@gmail.com wrote:
Paulo,
You suggest that "things will not get pretty if the Wikimedia
community
does not approve some of the recommendations". You may recall that
just
five years ago, Jan-Bart de Vreede, then chair of the WMF Board,
expressed
the opinion
https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:LilaTretikov_(WMF)&am...
over a much less dramatic change.
All of this is going to require change, change that might not be
acceptable to some of you. I hope that all of you will be a part of
this
next step in our evolution. But I understand that if you decide to
take a
wiki-break, that might be the way things have to be. Even so, you have
to
let the Foundation do its work and allow us all to take that next step
when
needed. I can only hope that your break is temporary, and that you
will
return when the time is right.
I presume this is a good summary of the WMF position today.
Jeff
On Fri, Aug 23, 2019 at 12:06 AM Paulo Santos Perneta < paulosperneta@gmail.com> wrote:
If I've well understood the timeline, all input from the Wikimedia community ceases in mid September. Then it's all defined by the WGs
8and
their advisors), and eventually decided upon by the BoT around
December.
Therefore, after 15 September or so, the Wikimedia community will
only
be
dealing with those recommendations again when they are already in the process of implementation.
It's quite easy to predict that things will not get pretty if the
Wikimedia
community does not approve some of the recommendations that pass all
the
way till implementation phase.
Paulo
Nicole Ebber nicole.ebber@wikimedia.de escreveu no dia quinta, 22/08/2019 à(s) 11:58:
> Dear all, > > Thank you for your engagement and input. It’s been great seeing so
much
> attention on movement strategy and collaborative efforts for
building
our
> future. Here are a couple of follow up responses and
clarifications.
> > DRAFTS > As pointed out in my previous email, the documents we recently
shared
are
> recommendation drafts. They are not final, and not complete, but
working
> documents that are currently being refined by the working groups.
Some
> answers still read like stubs that are longing for further
development,
> others are very detailed and will become more focused over the next
few
> weeks. We still decided to publish everything at once, to give
everyone a
> full picture of the variety of topics and offer an insight into
multiple
> progress levels. > > I would also like to reiterate that movement values, priorities and > community conversation processes are high on our radar. A
recommendation
to > change the existing license model, for example, will not just go
through
a > quick approval process, but lead to a deeper exploration into the reasoning > behind it: What problems are we trying to tackle, and what could be
ways
to > mitigate them? Such recommendation would then rather suggest to
look
into
> different measures to ensure indigenous knowledge is included in
the
> Wikimedia ecosystem, deploy research and further consultation,
instead
of
> rushing to a quick fix. > > INTEGRATION > The working groups are taking input that they gathered at Wikimania
and
via > different movement channels and incorporating it into the next
iteration
of > their recommendations. These documents will then serve as a basis
for
> harmonization across working groups. > > The input that we are gathering comes in on different levels. Some
of
it
> targets structural level changes or emphasizes specific principles
or
> values, while other feedback is more on the programmatic side or
already
> addressing implementation. Structural input will continue to be considered > in forthcoming iterations of the recommendations. Programmatic
input
will
> be documented and taken forward to inform the implementation. > > TIMELINE > We wanted to get the English drafts out as soon as possible and the > translations on a rolling basis, so that Wikimania participants
could
read > and prepare to engage in person. Over the next few weeks, we will
do
> targeted, public outreach to online project communities in multiple > languages. We are soliciting feedback to shape the overall
direction
of
the > recommendations through mid-September. Working Groups are already
working
> on identifying gaps and overlaps with other groups to prepare for > harmonization. > > At the harmonization sprint in Tunis on 20-22 September, we will
bring
3
> representatives from each Working Group together to work to
develop a
more > coherent set of recommendations. The group will be supported by > facilitators and external advice, as well as the core team. We have
also
> invited María Sefidari, Katherine Maher, Ryan Merkley, Valerie
D’Costa
> (Wikimedia Foundation) and Abraham Taherivand (Wikimedia
Deutschland)
to
> the sprint. They contribute expertise and experience from their
work
and
> leadership in the movement and beyond. They will be active
listeners
and
> can challenge recommendations by pointing out risks and
consequences
on
the > organizational and movement level. They also participate as the > representatives of organizations that may be impacted by the > recommendations. Involving them early is important so they can
anticipate
> any possible changes for their staff and programs, and plan for > implementation. > > Our aim is to release recommendations in November 2019, and present
them
to > the Board of Trustees for approval in December. We will need the
legal
> authority of the board for some of the recommendations, while
others
will
> then be further delegated to other community mechanisms and
structures
for > approval or further consultation.[1] There will be additional
public
> consultation activities around implementation that will be
discussed
and
> owned across the movement. > > WORKING GROUPS > We have chosen the working group model to ensure that the process
that
> embarks to make significant changes to our movement structures is
owned
by > the community. Members of the nine working group were selected by a > steering committee and the groups were established in July 2019.[2]
Group
> members come from different parts of the movement, e.g. from
different
> regions and languages, from individual contributors and organized
groups,
> and with different volunteer and staff roles, incl. Wikimedia
Foundation
> staff and board. > > The groups are doing an amazing job. With many of them being
volunteers,
or > doing this work on top of their regular jobs, creating the draft > recommendations is a huge achievement. They first needed to form,
storm
and > norm as a group and figure out how to best work together across
time
zones, > languages, and contexts. They then took a deep dive into the
substance
and > identified the scope of their work and the specific questions to
tackle
for > us as a movement to advance in our strategic direction. The
development
of > recommendations has started in spring this year, and – aside from
many
> online calls, asynchronous work and scarce in-person meetings –
included
> incorporating community conversations and external expertise. It is
only
to > the hard work of these groups that we finally have something
tangible
in
> front of us that we can all react to and help further improve to
build
our > future together. > > Please join us in thanking, celebrating and supporting them, rather
than
> rushing to conclusions or arguing over details. Please contribute
in
good > faith, and in a constructive way. > > Let me know if you have further questions. > > Best wishes, > Nicole > > [1] > >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/July_...
> [2] > >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Working_...
> > On Wed, 21 Aug 2019 at 13:13, Yaroslav Blanter ymbalt@gmail.com
wrote:
> >> And this is the core problem of the whole process (which has been pointed >> out by multiple people from the very beginning) >> >> Cheers >> Yaroslav >> >> On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 12:27 PM Jeff Hawke <
geoffey.hawke@gmail.com
>> wrote: >> >>> Andy >>> >>> On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 7:41 PM Andy Mabbett < > andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On Mon, 19 Aug 2019 at 09:55, Jeff Hawke <
geoffey.hawke@gmail.com>
>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> the WG then collate them and decide the final form of the >>>>> recommendations, to be implemented by the WMF >>>> >>>> This seems to be missing a rather crucial intermediate step;
the
one >>>> where the recommendations are accepted, or not, by the wider > Wikimedia >>>> community. >>>> >>> >>> That step is not mentioned at >>> >>> >> >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Frequent...
>>> ? >>> >>> Jeff >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
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> > > > -- > Nicole Ebber > Adviser International Relations > Program Manager Wikimedia 2030 Movement Strategy > Wikimedia Deutschland e. V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin > Tel. (030) 219 158 26-0 > https://wikimedia.de > > Unsere Vision ist eine Welt, in der alle Menschen am Wissen der Menschheit > teilhaben, es nutzen und mehren können. Helfen Sie uns dabei! > https://spenden.wikimedia.de > > Wikimedia Deutschland — Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens
e.
V.
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