Hoi, Another beautiful proclamation from GerardM that is as nonsequiter and irrelevant as it is asinine. On Oct 12, 2007, at 5:16 AM, GerardM wrote:
Hoi, Make a distinction. I have never seen a "confederate flag" at any of the Wikimanias. So at the event everyone is very much welcome.
Nobody ever said there was. Why hello Mr. Strawman?
The aim of a Wikimania is to bring people from all over the world together to talk wiki, wiki in any shape or form. It is a Wikimedia Foundation event so it is very much MediaWiki and WMF projects that is on the agenda.
They can't do that from jail, or from a hospital can they?
The aim of the Wikimedia Foundation is to bring information to the world. This means all of the world, not just those parts of the world where Western people feel comfortable. Bringing free npov information to the world is what we aim to achieve by going to all parts of the world. From an organisation's point of view all the reset is secondary.
So it's the message, rather than the convention attendees' safety, that is the priority? I'm sure the WMF doesn't agree with that. Please don't imply that is the way that they think.
Yes, it is best if everyone feels comfortable in coming to a Wikimania. When Wikimania goes to the Middle East, it has not gone to Africa proper. When Anthere says in her speech that Africa should be on our agenda, it is a step towards Africa. We do not talk explicitly about many things. The reason is imho simple; it is not what we are there for. This is what others deal with.
It is not a matter of whether women and gays feel comfortable there. It's a matter of whether they can be safe there and not imprisoned, harassed, or assaulted.
I am unhappy that people find that they are unable to go to Egypt. I am extremely unhappy that this discussion is happening after a decision; a decision that has been made and is final.
Apparently you missed the part of where people are upset about the way the decision was made. Also, please note that several people addressed the safety and LGBT concerns DURING the bid process and were told that they were trolling, or told to stop asking questions. In one case, instead of responding to a direct question about Alexandria's safety concerns, their bid team completely ignored the subject and instead attacked Atlanta. The fact that this whole argument was never even given due weight is why we are bringing it up.
What upsets me greatly is that the quality of the arguments about this issue, particularly about how foreigners are treated in Egypt, is of such a quality that the argument would be likely deleted in Wikipedia. We are talking largely about hearsay and the arguments of there not being a problem are at least as strong and better documented.
Bullshit. We've sourced our arguments with valid sources. I believe I sent out an email with 5 or 6 of them, a few days ago. If you choose to ignore them that is your choice; do not deign to look down upon us mortals and call us silly little trolls.
Thanks, GerardM
Thanks,
Dan