Dear All,
Making sure that safety requirements are met sure is important, and in view of the previous discussions there is a balance to find between opening to new geographic communities and securing our own community. I would like to point out somerhing more: concerning the gender gap, many women I came to know last year are not able to attend such events for the following reason:
- no children / teenager activities proposed from the beginning to people outside the organizing team - no baby sitting fees reimbursed for parents attending - no reduction or scholarships for single parents (wether LGBT man or woman alltogether) - the cost if moving a whole family (plane and train ticket) is not adressed for family members - late answers to such questions make it impossible to organize (one does need to think ahead to organize a childcare at home or elsewhere)
I think these issues are also important and need to be discussed if we want to reduce the gender gap.
Kind regards
Nattes à chat
Le 9 nov. 2016 à 17:43, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com a écrit :
Hoi, What is the point. When not even the USA is "safe", we have to be realistic. Wikimania is about propaganda for what we do. We have to travel and selecting a place is not about you, it is about them. It is about the people we aim to serve.
I made my point before, it did not get any attention then and my argument now is that nothing changed. It is only the perception of the USA that has been dented by an unfortunate "democratic" choice by last night's election. Thanks, GerardM
On 9 November 2016 at 17:27, Pax Ahimsa Gethen <list-wikimedia@funcrunch.org
wrote:
Gerard, as a queer black trans person who feels unsafe even in San Francisco (and has felt that way for years), I would really appreciate you not pushing last night's election results in my face to make a point.
- Pax
On 11/9/16 8:24 AM, Gerard Meijssen wrote:
Hoi, Do you blame me for not feeling safe going to the USA? Thanks, GerardM
On 8 November 2016 at 11:08, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
Hoi,
Not going to North Corolina is absolutely fine with me. We do not gain anything by going there arguably not to any state in the United States. What Wikimania is, is a platform for propaganda for what we have, what we do, who we are and how we do what we do. In many countries Wikipedia is not the house hold name it is in the USA.
Wikimania is not aimed for the English Wikipedia, it is aimed to further our movement. Not going to places is similar to saying that those other people, speaking other languages, with an other culture do not matter. They do.
We should go to Russia, India, South Africa, China. The people of those countries should matter to us, the people we could share the sum of all knowledge with.
THAT is what we do, sharing the sum of all knowledge.
When the choice of the venue is only about being safe, we should not go to the USA (I do not feel safe there), we should go to Germany, to Switzerland and move the office as well. It is not likely to happen, not what I want either.
If there is one thing about LBGT, it is that that struggle is still being fought. Hiding and keeping away does not work. It does not help the LBGT community. More importantly in this context it does not help the Wikimedia community. For the latter it is vital to make our message heard.We aim to share the sum of all knowledge and many people have not even heard of us. Thank, GerardM
On 18 October 2016 at 16:00, Pax Ahimsa Gethen < list-wikimedia@funcrunch.org> wrote:
Gerard, this isn't about "holiday destinations", it's about human rights
and dignity. That's why I emphasized in my original post that I'm concerned not only about the safety of conference attendees, but also about those living in the host country. The choice of a venue in a location with a poor human rights record reflects poorly upon Wikipedia/Wikimedia and our mission to share knowledge. There's a reason a number of major companies pulled their events and funding out of North Carolina after the restrictive restroom laws were passed for example...
- Pax
On 10/18/16 6:26 AM, Gerard Meijssen wrote:
Hoi,
For me safety is to a large extend secondary to what we aim to achieve. Our primary goal is to improve on our primary goal and it is "sharing in the sum of all knowledge". It is not for going to the perfect holiday destination. Thanks, GerardM
On 18 October 2016 at 13:56, Fæ faewik@gmail.com wrote:
Gerard, could you provide some tangible examples of how other safety
> aspects of Wikimania would be compromised if there is any specific > attention paid to the safety of LGBT+ Wikimedians? I cannot imagine > how such a thing could be true. > > Based on my reading, nobody in this thread has asked for the safety of > LGBT+ attendees to be "prioritized" over other safety aspects. Please > don't make it appear as if they have. > > Thanks, > Fae > > On 18 October 2016 at 11:42, Gerard Meijssen < > gerard.meijssen@gmail.com > wrote: > > Hoi, >> I do care that everybody can come to places where they are safe. All >> the >> specific LGBT attention to safety is however on many levels >> problematic >> when we prioritise this over other safety aspects. The big picture >> for >> me >> is that we need to go to places where bringing Wikipedia and what it >> >> stands > > for the most good. It is why I would go to Russia, to China to India >> to >> South Africa. >> >> -- > faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
-- Pax Ahimsa Gethen | http://funcrunch.org
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe