On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 7:46 PM, Ray Saintonge saintonge@telus.net wrote:
Seems to me that the mailing list is working just fine, despite a few people who complain far too much about the volume of traffic, or about the occasional tendency to irrelevant comments. They need to exercise a little more patience and tolerance. The situation is a classic case of "If it ain't broke don't fix it."
Sorry, Ray, but I (obviously) disagree. The list has reached a sort of equilibrium, it's true—it could continue operating as it does now for the foreseeable future. It's not particularly uncivil or violent, but neither is it particularly useful for its intended purpose.
For every one of the "few people" who complain, I'll bet money that there are at least ten who don't speak up on the list, because other people are championing the cause already; for every one of those there's probably another who unsubscribed or stopped paying attention because, well, it's just not worth it for them anymore.
I have no doubt that many of the current active contributors are perfectly content with the status quo, and I understand that. Plenty of meaningful discussion takes place here, and I don't mean to demean that or any of its contributors in any way. I do, however, believe that we should have a forum that's more than just ten busybodies talking about WMF matters amongst themselves.
A friend of mine, Charles Matthews, was for a time (I'm not sure if he still is) the single most prolific contributor to the English Wikipedia (behind Rambot, that is). He's a retired academic, and has the time to edit Wikipedia for several hours a day. This is a terrific thing for Wikipedia, since he's a smart guy and makes careful, intelligent edits which only enrich the project.
A mailing list, however, is different. A mailing list is a conversation. Everyone's been in a conversation where a single person dominated, and no matter how smart or charismatic or entertaining he may be, dominating a conversation minimizes the chance for other people to contribute and makes it less useful.
I've personally met some of the most prolific posters to Foundation-l, and not one I can think of is the type to dominate a conversation in person. On the contrary, most of them are fairly quiet in real life, and take the time to consider their points and formulate their responses. The difference is that, because of the nature of a mailing list, those who can afford a few hours per day can compose those well-thought-out responses to *every single thread on the list*. Others don't have that, or aren't willing to commit that, and the unfortunate end result is the same as the loudmouth you hate at dinner parties.
I'm encouraged by how the discussion's progressed thus far, and I see promise in some of the proposals (such as moving to a different medium), but at the very minimum there seems to be consensus for limiting the number of posts per-user on a periodic basis. It's a simplistic answer to a complicated problem, but I think it's a good start—maybe we can get people contributing again if they're not so intimidated by the volume and cliquishness.
Austin