Dear All,
I can only agree with GorillaWarfare. I am also tired of having to proove anything concernig gender has to be perfect, when the whole principle of Wikipedia is that everything is always perfectible. I think we should assume good faith and avoid <sarcastic> comments. Doing nothing about the gender gap would not bring a positive image of our movement. The gap is huge and we do need quantity. Readers noticing mistakes sometimes become contributors (dont we need new contributors?). Chosing such a tone “intentionally” (citing Gnangarra) is something I find shocking. I think criticism is good to make progress, one does not need to fuel resentmemt by making it <sarcastic>.
Kind regards,
Nattes à chat / Natacha
Le 16 oct. 2017 à 05:51, GorillaWarfare gorillawarfarewikipedia@gmail.com a écrit :
Also, in case it's not clear from my forwarding of Emily's/Keilana's message, I endorse it completely and am glad she made her points.
I agree fully with Keegan and Sydney. I don't think the concerns that this will be overtaken by bots are well-founded; that was planned for in the document outlining the competition, and editors involved in this project will be subject to all expectations of normal editors (including not mass-producing poor-quality content).
As for Keegan's original post, there is a major difference between describing an email as sexist versus labeling the sender as a sexist. I believe Keegan meant the former, and I'm not sure anything he's said can be described as an attack on the sender so much as a valid criticism of poor wording.
– Molly (GorillaWarfare)
On Sun, Oct 15, 2017 at 11:44 PM, GorillaWarfare <gorillawarfarewikipedia@ gmail.com> wrote:
Emily (User:Keilana) is having some trouble getting mails through to this list, so I'm forwarding this on her behalf in case it's an issue with her email address.
"This is some sexist bullshit. You really think we can't handle some stubs? And do you really, really think that people won't try to AFD everything that comes out of this contest as it is?
I'm sick and tired of this idea that we have to hold shit about women to a higher standard than literally anything else. The encyclopedia isn't going to break because, god forbid, some inexperienced newbies write a bunch of stubs.
And so what if people think we're paying lip service to women? It's better than being seen as being actively hostile to women, which, as I shouldn't have to remind you, is our reputation as it currently stands."
– Molly (GorillaWarfare)
On Sun, Oct 15, 2017 at 8:16 PM, Gnangarra gnangarra@gmail.com wrote:
No worries Keegan I read it as sarcastic, given the amount of noise on here I chose my tone intentionally to draw attention to the competition, yes it looks like a wonderful idea until to look at the mechanics of comeptition given it has a start time in 2 weeks, people are being encourage to start now in sandboxes, its being advertised on banners yet it has very obvious under lying issues
- unrealistic targets
- quantity not quality
- an expectation that competitors are required to do half of what is
expected from new editors , we should hold ourselves and expect of higher standards than that we expect from new comers
- no methodology for notability. blp, copyright issues arent weeded out
during the event or judging
- judging is done by a bot just doing a count
To win this event all you need is a list, a script, and reliable internet connection, despite having so many signed up well experience good editors on the list. <sarcasm> Sadly one person using a Wikidata script to create articles could be the winner, just imagine the unimaginable frankenstienian horror that would create </sarcasm>
Any competition that relies on numbers alone is fraught with danger, the big international events all succeed not because of numbers but because of large teams(this run by one person alone) focused on quality with the whole processes divided into manageable opt-in regional sections. All the initiatives to focus on under represented topics need to be careful few thousands of poor quality stubs about women is more harmful than having nothing as people will perceive Wikipedia to be paying lip service to women.
On 16 October 2017 at 07:18, Keegan Peterzell keegan.wiki@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Oct 15, 2017 at 5:22 PM, Gergő Tisza gtisza@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Oct 15, 2017 at 10:42 AM, Keegan Peterzell <
keegan.wiki@gmail.com>
wrote:
"The nerve of these women, to think that they can write encyclopedia articles on women who must inherently be non-notable! There's
nothing
to
write about here."
That's basically what your email says. No complaints when the
subject
is
anything else from you, when these thematic editing are held on
other
subjects.
Please avoid personal attacks based on hidden motivations you assume
other
parties to have; it's contrary to the Wikimedia movement's social best practices [1] and bound to take discussions in unproductive
directions.
When criticizing what someone said, stick to what they actually said. Especially so if your accusation of bad faith would be essentially content-free.
Todd, Gnangarra, Gergő,
My intention, as I touched on earlier, was not to make a personal attack but to address the tone in which I perceived the email to be written. I don't believe Gnangarra is actually sexist. I certainly stand by my position that the content of the initial post is unhelpful criticism and mostly hyperbole, but I'm more than willing to apologize if my language came across as a personal attack. I could have written it differently.
So,
sorry about that.
-- ~Keegan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Keegan
This is my personal email address. Everything sent from this email
address
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