On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 00:49, Zugravu Gheorghe zugravu.gheorghe@gmail.com wrote:
I think Milos proposal was about to discuss the issue of the "moldovan" wikipedia inside the interested people, the ones who sustain the idea of a such, and the opponents (maybe the word is not the most appropriate one - but i can remember any other more neutral word), together with the Langcom. In order not to monopolize the discussions on the [foundation-l] (and I have the feeling that otherwise the subject will become very "hot", and maybe somewhere too personalized), as M. Williams points out regarding the discussions that may take place.
I want to remember that the question of the existence of a "moldovan language" separated by Romanian language, with a distinct grammar, vocabulary and literature, partially or totally different, it is an extremely politicized question inside Republic of Moldova, first of all. There has been no clear conclusion/decision on the question, since it implies a lot of political issues to be brought up. In the last years it is more a silent consensus in society that "moldovan" is identical with Romanian language, and that "moldovan" is merely the name of the spoken language used by people living in historical Moldova, divide between Romania and Republica Moldova (as Irish or Scottish dialect of English, or American-English), with some different words - *but* - with totally identical *grammar*.
Thus the idea of Gutza to create a special discussion page on Meta will fit the idea of an open, public and transparent discussion with the support of Language subcommittee. And that we should not use the foundation-l for sharing inside talks on the issue.
One side wants to close the project, while it is against the core principle of Wikimedia: closing the project which serves strong majority of 177.000 Moldovans from Transnitria without giving them at least some other option is not according to the idea to "give the sum of all human knowledge to every human being".
In other words, plain deletion of Moldovan Wikipedia in Cyrillic is not an option for the near future (let's say, next couple of years), while it is unlikely that it would be an option at all. So, some other idea is needed.
I have some ideas how it could be solved, but my ideas are irrelevant. In any case, their implementation would be treated as imposing a solution "from the above". Thus, interested parties should find solution.
Years passed in open discussions and nothing acceptable has been concluded. So, I suggest that a couple of you should discuss privately and articulate [a draft for] some sensible solution and present it publicly for further discussion and, after that discussion, the final implementation.
According to the present situation, I have no confidence in continuing any public discussion without making a proposal. To be honest, I am highly skeptical about public discussion after making proposal, but, at least, at that time the proposal would be in the focus.
This issue is probably the most important reason why we don't have Wikimedia Romania yet. That means that the interest of the whole Wikimedian community is to have that problem solved. However, we are not able to solve it instead of you; as well as creating Wikimedia Romania is in the interest of Romanian Wikimedians, too.
I suppose that you understand the circumstances under which Moldovan Wikipedia [in Cyrillic] has been created. At the early time of Wikipedia, Moldovan language was codified as a separate language. If it was not the situation, it would have been highly unlikely that we have the project now, but it would have been likely that we would have it in the future, if Transnitrian Moldovans would have adopt Internet in significant numbers. That situation would have been much fortunate as the linguistic and national issues in Moldova and Romania won't be so hot after ten more years or so. However, the situation is different.
From the point of a person who cares about Wikimedia movement, I would
say that we should close Moldovan Cyrillic Wikipedia. It is obviously that we should care much more about living Romanian Wikimedian community, than about non-existent Moldovan Cyrillic Wikimedian community. However, there are some principles behind our work and they are stronger than utilitarian reasoning. As the project exists, we are not able just to remove it. In other words, please understand our position.
During the past years, Mark has given strong *arguments* against the deletion of Moldovan Cyrillic Wikipedia. Note that it is about arguments, not about partisan speech. He has also shown ability to seek for solutions. Because of those things, he is the best person to talk in the name of those Moldovans who are using Cyrillic orthography as their native one. If you feel that you have problems in articulating your own arguments, you can ask other Wikimedians to help to formulate your own needs toward this issue. I see that Marcus Buck, like Mark, is giving good arguments in favor of your position. So, ask him to help you.
Exactly because this is a hot political issue in Moldova and Romania, there is no way that the Language committee or the Board would be willing to decide before two sides reach an agreement. So, the right target for discussion are not members of Language committee or Board, but persons interested to have this problem solved. In other words, don't count on our involvement before you make a sensible proposal for the solution of the problem.