Wikimedia-l June 2011

wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org

147 participants
123 discussions

Re: [Foundation-l] Greg Kohs and Peter Damian
by Mike Dupont 23 Jul '11

23 Jul '11

Hello, >From what I have seen about Greg Kohs is that he does have some interesting points to make, but I do see that he is jumping to conclusions and does seem to have a biased viewpoint. People want to make their own decisions and have enough information to do that. We don't want to have important information deleted away because it is uncomfortable. Banning him makes it less likely for him to be heard, and these interesting points which are worth considering are not heard my many people : this is depriving people of critical information, that is not fair to the people involved. Just look at this article for example, it is quite interesting and well written, and why should it not be visible to everyone on the list. http://www.examiner.com/wiki-edits-in-national/wikimedia-foundation-directo… Deleting and banning people who say things that are not comfortable, that does make you look balanced and trustworthy. The Wikimedia foundation should be able to stand up to such accusations without resorting to gagging people, it just gives more credit to the people being gagged and makes people wonder if there is any merit in what they say. This brings up my favorite subject of unneeded deletions versions needed ones. Of course there is material that should be deleted that is hateful, Spam etc, lets call that evil content. But the articles that i wrote and my friends wrote that were deleted did not fall into that category, they might have been just bad or not notable. We have had a constant struggle to keep our articles from being deleted in a manner that we consider unfair. Additionally, the bad content is lost and falls into the same category as evil content. Also there should be more transparency on deleted material on the Wikipedia itself, there is a lot of information that is being deleted and gone forever without proper process or review. In my eyes there is a connection between the two topics, the banning of people and the deleting of information. Both are depriving people from information that they want and need in an unfair manner. Instead of articles about obscure events, things, and old places in Kosovo you have a wikipedia full of the latest information about every television show, is that what you really want? I think there should be room for things in places that are not not notable because they are not part of mainstream pop culture, we also need to support the underdogs of Wikipedia even if they are not mainstream, Mr Kohs definitely has something to say and I would like like to hear it. And the Kosovars have something to say even if the Serbs don't want to hear it. The Albanians have something to say even if the Greeks don't want to hear it, etc. There are many cases of people from Kosovo and Albania driven out of Wikipedia and depriving the project of important information because they are not able to get started and the contributions are so far way from the dominating political viewpoint of the opposite side that they don't even get a chance to be heard. We need to make a way for these people to be heard and to moderate the conflicts better, that will make Wikipedia stronger and more robust. thanks, mike

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[Foundation-l] Languages and numbers
by Milos Rancic 02 Jul '11

02 Jul '11

While preparing Missing Wikipedias [1], I've got numbers of speakers and languages by area and country with chapter not covered by Wikipedias. Numbers are preliminary, some of them should be corrected. I didn't exclude Han languages, which mostly shouldn't be counted, and similar. Note, also, that every language should be analyzed separately. Many languages are spoken not just inside of one country. Please, fix errors and comment. * * * Areas. They approximate the usual definitions of areas, but they are different because of linguistic corrections. * Afro-Asiatic Area: Area where Afro-Asiatic languages are dominant. North Africa + Middle East + Sudan, Ethiopia, Eritrea and Somalia - Iran. * Europe: Europe (including Caucasus) includes Turkey. * South Asia: South Asia + Iran. Dominantly Indo-European and Dravidian languages. * Sub-Saharan Africa: The rest of Africa. * Polynesia, Australia and Oceania: Includes Malaysia and Taiwan (Taiwanese languages not covered in Wikipedias are dominantly Austronesian.) * East Asia: Han China "China (Central)", Korea and Japan. * South-East Asia: Includes non-Han south China "China (South)". * Latin America: Parts of America where Spanish and Portuguese are official languages. * Anglo-French America: Parts of America where English, French and Dutch are official languages. * North Asia: Asian part of former USSR, Mongolia and non-Han northern and western China "China (North)". The first column is number of speakers, the second number of languages, the third is area. 399259294 592 South Asia 353676706 1805 Sub-Saharan Africa 221855457 253 Afro-Asiatic Area 138979263 2198 Polynesia, Australia and Oceania 107363760 37 East Asia 99260271 447 South-East Asia 47901185 143 Europe 30361602 724 Latin America 8481452 227 Anglo-French America 3724384 45 North Asia * * * Countries with chapters. (Numbers are not fully correct, as they include some languages removed in the list below this one.) If any chapter (or interested group) is interested in full list of missing languages, I'll provide it by request before completing the work. I suppose that some chapters are interested in languages with less than 100K of speakers, as well. 296,097,274 349 India 71,356,176 681 Indonesia 46,676,395 157 Philippines 7,819,010 9 Germany 7,994,871 76 Russian Federation 5,386,580 5 Serbia 4,785,299 6 South Africa 2,841,300 17 Israel 1,139,750 4 Ukraine 1,085,931 125 United States 832,000 3 Netherlands 705,967 70 Canada 472,470 1 Czech Republic 375,704 17 Taiwan 313,642 6 Chile 246,900 3 United Kingdom 200,500 4 Spain 191,430 5 Poland 151,240 7 Sweden 132,809 12 Argentina 86,390 155 Australia 50,000 1 France 30,000 1 Hungary 29,980 4 Switzerland 17,460 5 Finland 15,000 1 Portugal 10,500 2 Norway 5,000 1 Denmark 4,500 1 Estonia Languages with more than million or more than 100,000 of speakers without Wikipedia and with chapter in the country: India (more than million) 38261000 Awadhi 34700000 Maithili 17500000 Chhattisgarhi 13000000 Magahi 13000000 Haryanvi 12800000 Deccan 10400000 Malvi 9500000 Kanauji 9000000 Dhundari 7760000 Bagheli 6970000 Varhadi-Nagpuri 6170900 Santali 6000000 Lambadi 5622600 Marwari 5000000 Mewati 4730000 Hadothi 4004490 Konkani 3900000 Merwari 3800000 Mina 3633900 Konkani, Goan 3000000 Shekhawati 3000000 Godwari 2920000 Garhwali 2680000 Indian Sign Language 2360000 Kumaoni 2110000 Dogri 2100000 Bagri 2094200 Kurux 2000000 Mewari 1970000 Sadri 1950000 Tulu 1950000 Gondi, Northern 1930000 Waddar 1710000 Wagdi 1700000 Kangri 1580000 Khandesi 1560280 Mundari 1543300 Bodo 1500000 Ho 1430000 Nimadi 1391000 Meitei 1300000 Bhili 1200000 Vasavi 1150000 Bhilali 1045000 Panjabi, Mirpur 1000000 Pahari, Mahasu Indonesia (more than million) 13600900 Madura 5530000 Minangkabau 3930000 Musi 3502300 Banjar 3330000 Bali 2700000 Betawi 2350000 Malay, Central 2100000 Sasak 2000000 Batak Toba 1880000 Malay, Makassar 1600000 Makasar 1200000 Batak Simalungun 1200000 Batak Dairi 1100000 Batak Mandailing 1000000 Malay, Jambi Philippines (more than 100k) 5770000 Hiligaynon 2500000 Bicolano, Central 1900000 Bicolano, Albay 1062000 Tausug 1000000 Maguindanao 776000 Maranao 639000 Capiznon 540000 Bontoc, Central 500000 Ibanag 395000 Inakeanon 378000 Kinaray-a 350000 Masbatenyo 345000 Surigaonon 319000 Sama, Southern 293000 Chavacano 234000 Bicolano, Iriga 200000 Romblomanon 200000 Bantoanon 185000 Sorsogon, Waray 150000 Kankanaey 150000 Blaan, Koronadal 147000 Davawenyo 140000 Subanen, Central 134000 Itawit 123000 Cuyonon 122000 Bicolano, Northern Catanduanes 111000 Ibaloi 107000 Yakan 100000 Philippine Sign Language 100000 Binukid Germany 4910000 Mainfränkisch 2000000 Saxon, Upper 819000 Swabian Russian Federation 783720 Lezgi 696630 Erzya 614000 Moksha 516490 Dargwa 499300 Adyghe 460090 Mari, Meadow 422550 Kumyk 413000 Ingush 363000 Yakut 264400 Tuva 217000 Komi-Zyrian 164420 Lak 128900 Tabassaran 113710 Balkar Serbia and Kosovo 4156090 Albanian, Gheg 709570 Romani, Balkan 318920 Romani, Sinte 172000 Romano-Serbian South Africa 4101000 Sotho, Northern 640000 Ndebele Israel 1762320 Yiddish, Eastern 352500 Arabic, Judeo-Tunisian 258930 Arabic, Judeo-Moroccan 110000 Bukharic 100130 Arabic, Judeo-Iraqi United States 600000 Hawai’i Creole English 250000 Sea Island Creole English Netherlands 592000 Gronings 220000 Zeeuws Canada 402900 Plautdietsch Czech Republic 472470 Romani, Carpathian Taiwan 138000 Amis Chile 300039 Mapudungun United Kingdom 202900 Angloromani Spain 102000 Spanish Sign Language Sweden 109600 Finnish, Tornedalen

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[Foundation-l] No tail-lights. What do we do now? (was Call for referendum)
by David Gerard 02 Jul '11

02 Jul '11

On 30 June 2011 17:00, Alec Conroy <alecmconroy(a)gmail.com> wrote: [a git-like distributed wikisphere] > It's not my idea, I believe it's been independently suggested at > least five different times that I know of. But it's a HUGE step that > would require a big, bold push from developers and thus potentially a > large initial commitment from the foundation to spur development of > such a thing. That commitment might not be huge in terms of > resources-- a few professional lead developer-coordinators, perhaps. > But it would require some courage, leadership, and a vision to rally > volunteer developers around. If you visibly agree to it being built, > an amorphous 'they' will likely show up to actually build it for you, > free of charge. It would will radically change things for everyone > the instant such a tool is actually created. Adapting MediaWiki to git has been tried a few times. I suspect the problem is that the software deeply assumes a database behind it, not a version-controlled file tree. Wrong model for an easy fix to MediaWiki itself. Pouring en:wp's entire history into git is feasible (Greg Maxwell posted about doing it, IIRC). svnwiki exists - a wiki engine which uses files version-controlled by Subversion. Perhaps something like that - articles as files in a git repository, read by the new parser when that's done. > Such a wiki is inevitable, I just hope we can be the ones to develop it. Someone else could actually do it without our weight of organisational inertia and NIH. We need competitors. Further to your idea: people developing little specialist wikis along these lines, and said wikis being mergeable. This makes such wikis easier to start, without having to start yet another wiki-based general encyclopedia that directly competes with Wikipedia. Disruptive innovation starts in niches, not in a position where it'll just end up a bug on Wikipedia's windscreen. - d.

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[Foundation-l] It Is not Us
by Fred Bauder 01 Jul '11

01 Jul '11

The web itself is passé http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-facebook-vs-the-rest-of-the… Actually, we missed the boat, but that ship sailed long ago. Fred

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Re: [Foundation-l] No tail-lights. What do we do now? (was Call for referendum)
by HaeB 30 Jun '11

30 Jun '11

On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 7:35 PM, David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 30 June 2011 17:00, Alec Conroy <alecmconroy(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > [a git-like distributed wikisphere] > >> It's not my idea, I believe it's been independently suggested at >> least five different times that I know of. I have added your postings to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:HaeB/Timeline_of_distributed_Wikipedia_pr… Regards, HaeB

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Re: [Foundation-l] Call for referendum
by onthebrinkandfalling＠aol.com 30 Jun '11

30 Jun '11

On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 17:01, Fajro <faigos(a)gmail.com> wrote: This remind me of this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gbi2i_Y7gSE and http://www.thefilterbubble.com/ I don't like filter bubbles. "And what's in your filter bubble depends on who you are, and it depends on what you do - but the thing is that, you don't decide what gets in - and more importantly, you don't actually see what gets edited out." - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gbi2i_Y7gSE&t=4m23s What am I misunderstanding? Surely there is a difference between the "filter bubble" that decides what content to show me on it's own, and an "opt-in" filter where I can decide for myself what content I may or may not want to see?

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[Foundation-l] Façonnable USA Corp. v. John Does 1-10
by Fred Bauder 29 Jun '11

29 Jun '11

The progress of Façonnable USA Corp. v. John Does 1-10 a U.S. District Court for the District of Colorado case which concerns editing of the article Façonnable can be followed at http://www.citmedialaw.org/threats/fa%C3%A7onnable-usa-corp-v-john-does-1-1… The edits complained of, made by similar ip addresses in the spring of 2011, have been suppressed as potentially libelous and the page semi-protected, but a screenshot of a version of the article during this period is included as Exhibit A in the pleadings. Fred

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[Foundation-l] Nominating Committee
by Lodewijk 29 Jun '11

29 Jun '11

Hi, I read from several posts that the process with the nominating committee did not work out at all. In the mean time the whole nominating committee (and therefore any formal procedure where non-board members, read: the community, have any say on who gets onto the board in the appointed seat). I might have missed it (probably have) but is there some kind of evaluation of the functioning of the NomCom and a good reasoning why it was totally abolished? Is it clear /why/ it did not work? Birgitte seems to suggest it didnt work because procedures were not followed. Earlier (don't recall where exactly) (a) board member(s) seemed to suggest that it did not work because they were too slow and did not do their job. Both arguments seem to me something that can be solved quite easily - by starting to follow procedures or by getting different people on the committee. Perhaps someone who was there on the board at the time could clarify? Thanks a lot, Lodewijk 2011/6/25 Milos Rancic <millosh(a)gmail.com> > On 06/24/2011 07:57 PM, Birgitte_sb(a)yahoo.com wrote: > > I also sat on NomCom during this time period. I cannot agree that Matt's > appointment was more problematic than Stu's or Jan-Bart. Frankly all the > appointed board seats are problematic, and I cannot understand how you can > focus on Matt's appointment alone as a significant issue, nor how you reach > the conclusion that disorganization on the part of the board had any > significant role in the problems of appointed board seats. > > > > I am going to be frank and clear about how the issue appears to me: The > bylaws, in regard to appointed board seats, are unredeemably flawed. > > > > I find it offensive that any appointed Board Member should be singled out > and undermined merely because an impossible appointment process failed to > offer them greater legitimacy. All the appointments fell so far short of the > outlined process that I believe concluding one appointment to be less > acceptable than the others is impossible to objectively judge. Yes > Bishakha's seat was settled with more active discussion from NomCom than any > of the others. However the outlined process for appointed seats is not at > all what occurred. I suggest you re-read the by-laws (pay attention to the > time-line as well), consult your notes and dates, and honestly tell me how > the board might have believed that NomCom had any hope fulfilling the > official process at the time of Matt's appointment. > > That's other issue and I am not a legal expert. > > My logic behind suggesting to keep current members was probability that > changing them would bring more instability in already unstable Board at > that time. Board is today more stable than it was at that time and it is > good that this issue has been opened, so we can go further. > > _______________________________________________ > foundation-l mailing list > foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l >

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[Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikis around Europe!
by emijrp 29 Jun '11

29 Jun '11

Hi. I forward this e-mail, I hope there are people interested on this map. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: emijrp <emijrp(a)gmail.com> Date: 2011/6/11 Subject: Wikis around Europe! To: wikiteam-discuss(a)googlegroups.com Hi all; A friend of mine has sent me this link about wikis (locapedias) around Europe.[1] I'm very surprised about the huge amount of wikis available. Time to archive all of them.[2] I have been working on Spanish ones. If you want to help archiving one country, please, reply to this message to coordinate. If not, I will try to archive entire Europe! Regards, emijrp [1] http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&t=h&msa=0&msid=115570622864617231547… [2] http://code.google.com/p/wikiteam/

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Re: [Foundation-l] [Xmldatadumps-l] Wikipedia dumps downloader
by emijrp 29 Jun '11

29 Jun '11

Hi Richard; Yes, a distributed project would be probably the best solution, but it is not easy to develop, unless you use a library like bittorrent, or similar and you have many peers. Althought most of the people don't seed the files long time, so sometimes is better to depend on a few committed persons than a big but ephemeral crowd. Regards, emijrp 2011/6/26 Richard Farmbrough <richard(a)farmbrough.co.uk> > ** > It would be useful to have an archive of archives. I have to delete my > old data dumps as time passes, for space reasons, however a team could, > between them, maintain multiple copies of every data dump. This would make a > nice distributed project. > > On 26/06/2011 13:53, emijrp wrote: > > Hi all; > > Can you imagine a day when Wikipedia is added to this list?[1] > > WikiTeam have developed a script[2] to download all the Wikipedia dumps > (and her sister projects) from dumps.wikimedia.org. It sorts in folders > and checks md5sum. It only works on Linux (it uses wget). > > You will need about 100GB to download all the 7z files. > > Save our memory. > > Regards, > emijrp > > [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_libraries > [2] > http://code.google.com/p/wikiteam/source/browse/trunk/wikipediadownloader.py > > > _______________________________________________ > Xmldatadumps-l mailing listXmldatadumps-l@lists.wikimedia.orghttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xmldatadumps-l > > >

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Wikimedia-l June 2011