Hello,
First of all, I want to congratulate and thank the Wikimania organizing team for putting together one of the best-organized Wikimanias I've attended. It's easy to only notice the problems, so I wanted to call out the great work explicitly.
My main disappointment this year is that many sessions seem to go unrecorded. In previous years, I seem to recall that videos for most sessions were recorded, and sometimes even streamed live. It sometimes took months for the videos to be processed and uploaded to Commons or other video hosting sites, but the videos existed. If the session isn't taped at all, then the record is lost forever.
We have a lot of talented presenters giving insightful talks and generating great discussions, but only for the benefit of the small subset of our community that's present in the room. If we can't share what happens at Wikimania with our larger community, it seems like a missed opportunity for our movement. Even for Wikimania attendees, when there are up to 8 simultaneous tracks, it's easy to miss sessions you're interested in.
I realize it's probably too late to do anything for this year's Wikimania, but I'd like to start a discussion about making video recordings of all sessions (not just a selection of them) a requirement for upcoming Wikimania bids.
+1 on the compliments, but I must say the session I talked in was recorded. Not sure about the session I'm attending now, but yes, we need to find a solution. Has anyone a recorder to share?
L. Il 17/lug/2015 16:18, "Guillaume Paumier" gpaumier@wikimedia.org ha scritto:
Hello,
First of all, I want to congratulate and thank the Wikimania organizing team for putting together one of the best-organized Wikimanias I've attended. It's easy to only notice the problems, so I wanted to call out the great work explicitly.
My main disappointment this year is that many sessions seem to go unrecorded. In previous years, I seem to recall that videos for most sessions were recorded, and sometimes even streamed live. It sometimes took months for the videos to be processed and uploaded to Commons or other video hosting sites, but the videos existed. If the session isn't taped at all, then the record is lost forever.
We have a lot of talented presenters giving insightful talks and generating great discussions, but only for the benefit of the small subset of our community that's present in the room. If we can't share what happens at Wikimania with our larger community, it seems like a missed opportunity for our movement. Even for Wikimania attendees, when there are up to 8 simultaneous tracks, it's easy to miss sessions you're interested in.
I realize it's probably too late to do anything for this year's Wikimania, but I'd like to start a discussion about making video recordings of all sessions (not just a selection of them) a requirement for upcoming Wikimania bids.
-- Guillaume Paumier
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Salut Guillaume,
video recording is a real cost driver - you need expensive equipment (as of 1.000 USD / day) and a lot of staff if you want to make it professionally.
Sometimes you are lucky and video production is offered by the venue or a video producer is providing sponsorship but otherwise it is really a question of costs. Often the compromise is then to only record the main auditorium and skip the rest.
What you can do is to bring your own camera and mic for a Google Hangout session and recording, as I did for the MediaWiki Stakeholder session. This won't be very professional, though.
/Manuel
video recording is a real cost driver - you need expensive equipment (as of 1.000 USD / day) and a lot of staff if you want to make it professionally.
How good is the idea, that instead of hiring these tools year after year, the WMF/Wikimania grabs a set of, say 10 portable, yet good video cameras, and reuse them from Wikimania's to Wikimania?
Unless Wikimania is coming to an end in a couple of years time, I see grabbing such gadgets (if not already available) and making use of them from time to time a valid and profitable long-term investment.
Talk of volunteers? I think when a call is put up for volunteer cameramen, we can get them to before every wikimania.
Victor brought a great video camera (property of wmf) last year to wikimania. I enjoyed using it, and if there're enough for each session, getting cameramen shouldn't be an issue.
The wikimedia community is big, thus aside maybe needing the expert/professional services of production houses to handle live streaming or sort, recording a session (a point and shoot thing), I don't think any rocket science might be needed of which we can find volunteers among us to do that.
So I spoke with the team doing the video recordings this year about 5 weeks ago. This is what I know:
*Last year, all the talks were recorded, which cost a lot, and then very few people watched them, so (this was not my decision) the decision was made to only record particular talks this year.
*No livestreams were available.
*The video team that has been hired has been instructed to incorporate .webm conversion and uploading to commons into their workflow, so expect them to upload as soon as they can. I don;t know when this will be.
*All the footage that the video team is shooting will be owned (copyright) by Wikimedia Mexico per their contract, so if there are particular clips you want later, contact WMMX.
Per Nkansah's point: I don't recommend buying 10 cameras - the cost of shipping, storing, maintaining all that gear is cumbersome and as the years go on, most cameras will go 'obsolete' - they will function but not be up to moderns standards. For those reasons I do recommend renting gear in locations for large productions, like Wikimania.
Hope this helps!
On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 4:33 PM, Nkansah Rexford nkansahrexford@gmail.com wrote:
video recording is a real cost driver - you need expensive equipment (as
of 1.000 USD / day) and a lot of staff if you want to make it professionally.
How good is the idea, that instead of hiring these tools year after year, the WMF/Wikimania grabs a set of, say 10 portable, yet good video cameras, and reuse them from Wikimania's to Wikimania?
Unless Wikimania is coming to an end in a couple of years time, I see grabbing such gadgets (if not already available) and making use of them from time to time a valid and profitable long-term investment.
Talk of volunteers? I think when a call is put up for volunteer cameramen, we can get them to before every wikimania.
Victor brought a great video camera (property of wmf) last year to wikimania. I enjoyed using it, and if there're enough for each session, getting cameramen shouldn't be an issue.
The wikimedia community is big, thus aside maybe needing the expert/professional services of production houses to handle live streaming or sort, recording a session (a point and shoot thing), I don't think any rocket science might be needed of which we can find volunteers among us to do that.
-- +Rexford http://google.com/+Nkansahrexford | khophi.co http://khophi.co/about
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
On 17 July 2015 at 22:33, Nkansah Rexford nkansahrexford@gmail.com wrote:
How good is the idea, that instead of hiring these tools year after year, the WMF/Wikimania grabs a set of, say 10 portable, yet good video cameras, and reuse them from Wikimania's to Wikimania?
Recording video* is easy; you can do it on most mobile phones these days.
What is difficult is providing audio of sufficient quality; you need good, well placed microphones, operated by someone who knows what they are doing, This is especially important when you consider that many people will not be listening in their native language.
Then there's the issue of closed captions....
* Likewise streaming it - if you have sufficient bandwidth; ideally not the public Wi-Fi.
On 18/07/15 11:01, Andy Mabbett wrote:
What is difficult is providing audio of sufficient quality; you need good, well placed microphones, operated by someone who knows what they are doing, This is especially important when you consider that many people will not be listening in their native language.
But we generally present with microphones anyway in order to use speakers in the room. Shouldn't it be possible to hook into this to also record it?
Recording video* is easy; you can do it on most mobile phones these days.
And on that note, the wiki indaba conference was recorded solely on a mobile phone[1]. Although sound quality wasn't the best, with considerable thought on getting an appropriate accessory to handle sound, phones are also an alternative worth looking into.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTdU_5c77__7y3igaHAauOyAvo2crj2cp
I agree with Andy for the most part. My rule has always been that even if the image is amazing, if the audio is bad the audience will hate what they are watching and won't know why (it will be because they have to spend extra effort to understand the audio they are hearing).
However IMHO for strictly archival and transcription purposes, cheap quick low-quality cellphone/cheap camcorder stuff CAN sometimes work.
Also per what Isarra said, if audio is being amplified in any way, it's best to plug your video camera/audio recorder into that source directly, or indirectly https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:2015_Wikimania_press_conference-3.jpg : [image: File:2015 Wikimania press conference-3.jpg] Sometimes though, audience members will ask questions, and those might not be recorded. Again, having a professional there helps with this.
On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 9:31 AM, Nkansah Rexford nkansahrexford@gmail.com wrote:
Recording video* is easy; you can do it on most mobile phones these days.
And on that note, the wiki indaba conference was recorded solely on a mobile phone[1]. Although sound quality wasn't the best, with considerable thought on getting an appropriate accessory to handle sound, phones are also an alternative worth looking into.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTdU_5c77__7y3igaHAauOyAvo2crj2cp
-- +Rexford http://google.com/+Nkansahrexford | khophi.co http://khophi.co/about
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
I'm trying to guerrilla video record as many Wikimania sessions that I can attend, so I cannot respond at length.
But I do want to say: the cost/benefit analysis needs to consider the quality of the viewers and not just the quantity.
When a Wikipedian in Residence can show their institution the video of their Wikimania presentation as evidence of impact and engagement, it can lead to renewal of their positions and more initiatives.
When the video of a Wikimania panel on COI and PR editing can convince more multi-billion dollar PR firm to understand our guidelines and terms of use, that's a major outcome.
When someone talks about Wiki Loves Earth, #100wikidays or other grassroots projects, video provides a unique window into the emotions and motivations you cannot capture in a mailing list or blog post.
When in 10 years, we want to know the passions and personalities that led us to where the movement is, where will we look?
If we're expecting Wikimania videos to rack up the same views as LOLcats, it ain't going to happen. It has always been a very small core community does a massive amount of the innovation and work that keeps the projects going, and the ability to talk to each other in deep, complex and accessible ways is vital.
For a movement dedicated to capturing the sum of all human knowledge, it's surprising how blasé we are in letting our own community history fall by the wayside.
-Andrew Lih Associate professor of journalism, American University Email: andrew@andrewlih.com WEB: http://www.andrewlih.com BOOK: The Wikipedia Revolution: http://www.wikipediarevolution.com PROJECT: Wiki Makes Video http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wiki_Makes_Video
On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 9:31 AM, Nkansah Rexford nkansahrexford@gmail.com wrote:
Recording video* is easy; you can do it on most mobile phones these days.
And on that note, the wiki indaba conference was recorded solely on a mobile phone[1]. Although sound quality wasn't the best, with considerable thought on getting an appropriate accessory to handle sound, phones are also an alternative worth looking into.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTdU_5c77__7y3igaHAauOyAvo2crj2cp
-- +Rexford http://google.com/+Nkansahrexford | khophi.co http://khophi.co/about
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Andrew++.
A.
On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Andrew Lih andrew@andrewlih.com wrote:
I'm trying to guerrilla video record as many Wikimania sessions that I can attend, so I cannot respond at length.
But I do want to say: the cost/benefit analysis needs to consider the quality of the viewers and not just the quantity.
When a Wikipedian in Residence can show their institution the video of their Wikimania presentation as evidence of impact and engagement, it can lead to renewal of their positions and more initiatives.
When the video of a Wikimania panel on COI and PR editing can convince more multi-billion dollar PR firm to understand our guidelines and terms of use, that's a major outcome.
When someone talks about Wiki Loves Earth, #100wikidays or other grassroots projects, video provides a unique window into the emotions and motivations you cannot capture in a mailing list or blog post.
When in 10 years, we want to know the passions and personalities that led us to where the movement is, where will we look?
If we're expecting Wikimania videos to rack up the same views as LOLcats, it ain't going to happen. It has always been a very small core community does a massive amount of the innovation and work that keeps the projects going, and the ability to talk to each other in deep, complex and accessible ways is vital.
For a movement dedicated to capturing the sum of all human knowledge, it's surprising how blasé we are in letting our own community history fall by the wayside.
-Andrew Lih Associate professor of journalism, American University Email: andrew@andrewlih.com WEB: http://www.andrewlih.com BOOK: The Wikipedia Revolution: http://www.wikipediarevolution.com PROJECT: Wiki Makes Video http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wiki_Makes_Video
On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 9:31 AM, Nkansah Rexford <nkansahrexford@gmail.com
wrote:
Recording video* is easy; you can do it on most mobile phones these days.
And on that note, the wiki indaba conference was recorded solely on a mobile phone[1]. Although sound quality wasn't the best, with considerable thought on getting an appropriate accessory to handle sound, phones are also an alternative worth looking into.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTdU_5c77__7y3igaHAauOyAvo2crj2cp
-- +Rexford http://google.com/+Nkansahrexford | khophi.co http://khophi.co/about
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Andrew++
I find it odd that we are willing to have a huge budget for Wikimania and none for recording videos of talks for non-attendees to view. I think we owe it to them. It can be crowdfunded if need be.
An interesting idea perhaps is to group video if we have a reliable way to crowd source this.
I did notice a video cam recording the talk after mine. I am unsure if mine was recorded as well. Does anyone know who was operating the tripod camera? I seen it in other talks too.
-- とある白い猫 (To Aru Shiroi Neko)
On 18 July 2015 at 23:17, Asaf Bartov abartov@wikimedia.org wrote:
Andrew++.
A.
On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Andrew Lih andrew@andrewlih.com wrote:
I'm trying to guerrilla video record as many Wikimania sessions that I can attend, so I cannot respond at length.
But I do want to say: the cost/benefit analysis needs to consider the quality of the viewers and not just the quantity.
When a Wikipedian in Residence can show their institution the video of their Wikimania presentation as evidence of impact and engagement, it can lead to renewal of their positions and more initiatives.
When the video of a Wikimania panel on COI and PR editing can convince more multi-billion dollar PR firm to understand our guidelines and terms of use, that's a major outcome.
When someone talks about Wiki Loves Earth, #100wikidays or other grassroots projects, video provides a unique window into the emotions and motivations you cannot capture in a mailing list or blog post.
When in 10 years, we want to know the passions and personalities that led us to where the movement is, where will we look?
If we're expecting Wikimania videos to rack up the same views as LOLcats, it ain't going to happen. It has always been a very small core community does a massive amount of the innovation and work that keeps the projects going, and the ability to talk to each other in deep, complex and accessible ways is vital.
For a movement dedicated to capturing the sum of all human knowledge, it's surprising how blasé we are in letting our own community history fall by the wayside.
-Andrew Lih Associate professor of journalism, American University Email: andrew@andrewlih.com WEB: http://www.andrewlih.com BOOK: The Wikipedia Revolution: http://www.wikipediarevolution.com PROJECT: Wiki Makes Video http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wiki_Makes_Video
On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 9:31 AM, Nkansah Rexford < nkansahrexford@gmail.com> wrote:
Recording video* is easy; you can do it on most mobile phones these days.
And on that note, the wiki indaba conference was recorded solely on a mobile phone[1]. Although sound quality wasn't the best, with considerable thought on getting an appropriate accessory to handle sound, phones are also an alternative worth looking into.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTdU_5c77__7y3igaHAauOyAvo2crj2cp
-- +Rexford http://google.com/+Nkansahrexford | khophi.co http://khophi.co/about
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
-- Asaf Bartov Wikimedia Foundation http://www.wikimediafoundation.org
Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality! https://donate.wikimedia.org
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
I believe at least one press outlet was recording some talks, presumably to serve as b-roll. Perhaps what you saw was one of those?
Joe
On Mon, 3 Aug 2015 at 19:21 とある白い猫 to.aru.shiroi.neko@gmail.com wrote:
Andrew++
I find it odd that we are willing to have a huge budget for Wikimania and none for recording videos of talks for non-attendees to view. I think we owe it to them. It can be crowdfunded if need be.
An interesting idea perhaps is to group video if we have a reliable way to crowd source this.
I did notice a video cam recording the talk after mine. I am unsure if mine was recorded as well. Does anyone know who was operating the tripod camera? I seen it in other talks too.
-- とある白い猫 (To Aru Shiroi Neko)
On 18 July 2015 at 23:17, Asaf Bartov abartov@wikimedia.org wrote:
Andrew++.
A.
On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Andrew Lih andrew@andrewlih.com wrote:
I'm trying to guerrilla video record as many Wikimania sessions that I can attend, so I cannot respond at length.
But I do want to say: the cost/benefit analysis needs to consider the quality of the viewers and not just the quantity.
When a Wikipedian in Residence can show their institution the video of their Wikimania presentation as evidence of impact and engagement, it can lead to renewal of their positions and more initiatives.
When the video of a Wikimania panel on COI and PR editing can convince more multi-billion dollar PR firm to understand our guidelines and terms of use, that's a major outcome.
When someone talks about Wiki Loves Earth, #100wikidays or other grassroots projects, video provides a unique window into the emotions and motivations you cannot capture in a mailing list or blog post.
When in 10 years, we want to know the passions and personalities that led us to where the movement is, where will we look?
If we're expecting Wikimania videos to rack up the same views as LOLcats, it ain't going to happen. It has always been a very small core community does a massive amount of the innovation and work that keeps the projects going, and the ability to talk to each other in deep, complex and accessible ways is vital.
For a movement dedicated to capturing the sum of all human knowledge, it's surprising how blasé we are in letting our own community history fall by the wayside.
-Andrew Lih Associate professor of journalism, American University Email: andrew@andrewlih.com WEB: http://www.andrewlih.com BOOK: The Wikipedia Revolution: http://www.wikipediarevolution.com PROJECT: Wiki Makes Video http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wiki_Makes_Video
On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 9:31 AM, Nkansah Rexford < nkansahrexford@gmail.com> wrote:
Recording video* is easy; you can do it on most mobile phones these
days.
And on that note, the wiki indaba conference was recorded solely on a mobile phone[1]. Although sound quality wasn't the best, with considerable thought on getting an appropriate accessory to handle sound, phones are also an alternative worth looking into.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTdU_5c77__7y3igaHAauOyAvo2crj2cp
-- +Rexford http://google.com/+Nkansahrexford | khophi.co http://khophi.co/about
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
-- Asaf Bartov Wikimedia Foundation http://www.wikimediafoundation.org
Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality! https://donate.wikimedia.org
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
There will be videos of the featured speakers, some of the hackathon, and a documentary available soon. People involved in this will presumably be posting when these are available and up on Commons, etc.
I think in the future we might want to consider having cameras/tripods and especially good audio recording in each of the session rooms. (I think that might be something WMF could provide equipment and make sure A-V service has good audio especially.) We could then ask for volunteers on site to handle logistics/recordings. This wouldn’t involve a lot of editing or post-production work/expense… as long as people know that it would be pretty “basic”, but making sure we have good audio especially.
I wil ask the upcoming Wikimania organizing team what they think of this idea and perhaps they will come up with a plan and/or put out a call for partcipation to make this happen next year?
Ellie WMF Conference Coordinator
On Aug 3, 2015, at 11:30 AM, Joseph Fox josephfoxwiki@gmail.com wrote:
I believe at least one press outlet was recording some talks, presumably to serve as b-roll. Perhaps what you saw was one of those?
Joe
On Mon, 3 Aug 2015 at 19:21 とある白い猫 <to.aru.shiroi.neko@gmail.com mailto:to.aru.shiroi.neko@gmail.com> wrote: Andrew++
I find it odd that we are willing to have a huge budget for Wikimania and none for recording videos of talks for non-attendees to view. I think we owe it to them. It can be crowdfunded if need be.
An interesting idea perhaps is to group video if we have a reliable way to crowd source this.
I did notice a video cam recording the talk after mine. I am unsure if mine was recorded as well. Does anyone know who was operating the tripod camera? I seen it in other talks too.
-- とある白い猫 (To Aru Shiroi Neko)
On 18 July 2015 at 23:17, Asaf Bartov <abartov@wikimedia.org mailto:abartov@wikimedia.org> wrote: Andrew++.
A.
On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Andrew Lih <andrew@andrewlih.com mailto:andrew@andrewlih.com> wrote: I'm trying to guerrilla video record as many Wikimania sessions that I can attend, so I cannot respond at length.
But I do want to say: the cost/benefit analysis needs to consider the quality of the viewers and not just the quantity.
When a Wikipedian in Residence can show their institution the video of their Wikimania presentation as evidence of impact and engagement, it can lead to renewal of their positions and more initiatives.
When the video of a Wikimania panel on COI and PR editing can convince more multi-billion dollar PR firm to understand our guidelines and terms of use, that's a major outcome.
When someone talks about Wiki Loves Earth, #100wikidays or other grassroots projects, video provides a unique window into the emotions and motivations you cannot capture in a mailing list or blog post.
When in 10 years, we want to know the passions and personalities that led us to where the movement is, where will we look?
If we're expecting Wikimania videos to rack up the same views as LOLcats, it ain't going to happen. It has always been a very small core community does a massive amount of the innovation and work that keeps the projects going, and the ability to talk to each other in deep, complex and accessible ways is vital.
For a movement dedicated to capturing the sum of all human knowledge, it's surprising how blasé we are in letting our own community history fall by the wayside.
-Andrew Lih Associate professor of journalism, American University Email: andrew@andrewlih.com mailto:andrew@andrewlih.com WEB: http://www.andrewlih.com http://www.andrewlih.com/ BOOK: The Wikipedia Revolution: http://www.wikipediarevolution.com http://www.wikipediarevolution.com/ PROJECT: Wiki Makes Video http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wiki_Makes_Video http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wiki_Makes_Video
On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 9:31 AM, Nkansah Rexford <nkansahrexford@gmail.com mailto:nkansahrexford@gmail.com> wrote: Recording video* is easy; you can do it on most mobile phones these days.
And on that note, the wiki indaba conference was recorded solely on a mobile phone[1]. Although sound quality wasn't the best, with considerable thought on getting an appropriate accessory to handle sound, phones are also an alternative worth looking into.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTdU_5c77__7y3igaHAauOyAvo2crj2cp https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTdU_5c77__7y3igaHAauOyAvo2crj2cp
-- +Rexford http://google.com/+Nkansahrexford | khophi.co http://khophi.co/about
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
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-- Asaf Bartov Wikimedia Foundation http://www.wikimediafoundation.org/
Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality! https://donate.wikimedia.org https://donate.wikimedia.org/ _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
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I suspect if we put out a call in advance we would be able to get a lot of the equipment we need. I would have brought a tripod for this wikimania if I'd known in advance it was needed (not so likely to be possible next year as I may need to bring a tent and sleeping bag).
On 3 August 2015 at 19:40, Ellie Young eyoung@wikimedia.org wrote:
There will be videos of the featured speakers, some of the hackathon, and a documentary available soon. People involved in this will presumably be posting when these are available and up on Commons, etc.
I think in the future we might want to consider having cameras/tripods and especially good audio recording in each of the session rooms. (I think that might be something WMF could provide equipment and make sure A-V service has good audio especially.) We could then ask for volunteers on site to handle logistics/recordings. This wouldn’t involve a lot of editing or post-production work/expense… as long as people know that it would be pretty “basic”, but making sure we have good audio especially.
I wil ask the upcoming Wikimania organizing team what they think of this idea and perhaps they will come up with a plan and/or put out a call for partcipation to make this happen next year?
Ellie WMF Conference Coordinator
On Aug 3, 2015, at 11:30 AM, Joseph Fox josephfoxwiki@gmail.com wrote:
I believe at least one press outlet was recording some talks, presumably to serve as b-roll. Perhaps what you saw was one of those?
Joe
On Mon, 3 Aug 2015 at 19:21 とある白い猫 to.aru.shiroi.neko@gmail.com wrote:
Andrew++
I find it odd that we are willing to have a huge budget for Wikimania and none for recording videos of talks for non-attendees to view. I think we owe it to them. It can be crowdfunded if need be.
An interesting idea perhaps is to group video if we have a reliable way to crowd source this.
I did notice a video cam recording the talk after mine. I am unsure if mine was recorded as well. Does anyone know who was operating the tripod camera? I seen it in other talks too.
-- とある白い猫 (To Aru Shiroi Neko)
On 18 July 2015 at 23:17, Asaf Bartov abartov@wikimedia.org wrote:
Andrew++.
A.
On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Andrew Lih andrew@andrewlih.com wrote:
I'm trying to guerrilla video record as many Wikimania sessions that I can attend, so I cannot respond at length.
But I do want to say: the cost/benefit analysis needs to consider the quality of the viewers and not just the quantity.
When a Wikipedian in Residence can show their institution the video of their Wikimania presentation as evidence of impact and engagement, it can lead to renewal of their positions and more initiatives.
When the video of a Wikimania panel on COI and PR editing can convince more multi-billion dollar PR firm to understand our guidelines and terms of use, that's a major outcome.
When someone talks about Wiki Loves Earth, #100wikidays or other grassroots projects, video provides a unique window into the emotions and motivations you cannot capture in a mailing list or blog post.
When in 10 years, we want to know the passions and personalities that led us to where the movement is, where will we look?
If we're expecting Wikimania videos to rack up the same views as LOLcats, it ain't going to happen. It has always been a very small core community does a massive amount of the innovation and work that keeps the projects going, and the ability to talk to each other in deep, complex and accessible ways is vital.
For a movement dedicated to capturing the sum of all human knowledge, it's surprising how blasé we are in letting our own community history fall by the wayside.
-Andrew Lih Associate professor of journalism, American University Email: andrew@andrewlih.com WEB: http://www.andrewlih.com BOOK: The Wikipedia Revolution: http://www.wikipediarevolution.com PROJECT: Wiki Makes Video http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wiki_Makes_Video
On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 9:31 AM, Nkansah Rexford < nkansahrexford@gmail.com> wrote:
Recording video* is easy; you can do it on most mobile phones these
days.
And on that note, the wiki indaba conference was recorded solely on a mobile phone[1]. Although sound quality wasn't the best, with considerable thought on getting an appropriate accessory to handle sound, phones are also an alternative worth looking into.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTdU_5c77__7y3igaHAauOyAvo2crj2cp
-- +Rexford http://google.com/+Nkansahrexford | khophi.co http://khophi.co/about
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-- Asaf Bartov Wikimedia Foundation http://www.wikimediafoundation.org/
Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality! https://donate.wikimedia.org
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I think a good use of our scholarship money would be to ask for service obligations, such as being part of the video recording crew.
I've been part of professional journalism organizations and this is done annually with great results -- we call it the "student newsroom." Applicants who are accepted get a full scholarship to attend, have a well-defined set of service obligations around reporting on the conference, and the benefit is that they get to see other sessions and rub shoulders with people they would have otherwise never get to meet.
-Andrew
-Andrew Lih Associate professor of journalism, American University Email: andrew@andrewlih.com WEB: http://www.andrewlih.com BOOK: The Wikipedia Revolution: http://www.wikipediarevolution.com PROJECT: Wiki Makes Video http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wiki_Makes_Video
On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 11:59 AM, WereSpielChequers < werespielchequers@gmail.com> wrote:
I suspect if we put out a call in advance we would be able to get a lot of the equipment we need. I would have brought a tripod for this wikimania if I'd known in advance it was needed (not so likely to be possible next year as I may need to bring a tent and sleeping bag).
On 3 August 2015 at 19:40, Ellie Young eyoung@wikimedia.org wrote:
There will be videos of the featured speakers, some of the hackathon, and a documentary available soon. People involved in this will presumably be posting when these are available and up on Commons, etc.
I think in the future we might want to consider having cameras/tripods and especially good audio recording in each of the session rooms. (I think that might be something WMF could provide equipment and make sure A-V service has good audio especially.) We could then ask for volunteers on site to handle logistics/recordings. This wouldn’t involve a lot of editing or post-production work/expense… as long as people know that it would be pretty “basic”, but making sure we have good audio especially.
I wil ask the upcoming Wikimania organizing team what they think of this idea and perhaps they will come up with a plan and/or put out a call for partcipation to make this happen next year?
Ellie WMF Conference Coordinator
On Aug 3, 2015, at 11:30 AM, Joseph Fox josephfoxwiki@gmail.com wrote:
I believe at least one press outlet was recording some talks, presumably to serve as b-roll. Perhaps what you saw was one of those?
Joe
On Mon, 3 Aug 2015 at 19:21 とある白い猫 to.aru.shiroi.neko@gmail.com wrote:
Andrew++
I find it odd that we are willing to have a huge budget for Wikimania and none for recording videos of talks for non-attendees to view. I think we owe it to them. It can be crowdfunded if need be.
An interesting idea perhaps is to group video if we have a reliable way to crowd source this.
I did notice a video cam recording the talk after mine. I am unsure if mine was recorded as well. Does anyone know who was operating the tripod camera? I seen it in other talks too.
-- とある白い猫 (To Aru Shiroi Neko)
On 18 July 2015 at 23:17, Asaf Bartov abartov@wikimedia.org wrote:
Andrew++.
A.
On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Andrew Lih andrew@andrewlih.com wrote:
I'm trying to guerrilla video record as many Wikimania sessions that I can attend, so I cannot respond at length.
But I do want to say: the cost/benefit analysis needs to consider the quality of the viewers and not just the quantity.
When a Wikipedian in Residence can show their institution the video of their Wikimania presentation as evidence of impact and engagement, it can lead to renewal of their positions and more initiatives.
When the video of a Wikimania panel on COI and PR editing can convince more multi-billion dollar PR firm to understand our guidelines and terms of use, that's a major outcome.
When someone talks about Wiki Loves Earth, #100wikidays or other grassroots projects, video provides a unique window into the emotions and motivations you cannot capture in a mailing list or blog post.
When in 10 years, we want to know the passions and personalities that led us to where the movement is, where will we look?
If we're expecting Wikimania videos to rack up the same views as LOLcats, it ain't going to happen. It has always been a very small core community does a massive amount of the innovation and work that keeps the projects going, and the ability to talk to each other in deep, complex and accessible ways is vital.
For a movement dedicated to capturing the sum of all human knowledge, it's surprising how blasé we are in letting our own community history fall by the wayside.
-Andrew Lih Associate professor of journalism, American University Email: andrew@andrewlih.com WEB: http://www.andrewlih.com BOOK: The Wikipedia Revolution: http://www.wikipediarevolution.com PROJECT: Wiki Makes Video http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wiki_Makes_Video
On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 9:31 AM, Nkansah Rexford < nkansahrexford@gmail.com> wrote:
Recording video* is easy; you can do it on most mobile phones these > days. >
And on that note, the wiki indaba conference was recorded solely on a mobile phone[1]. Although sound quality wasn't the best, with considerable thought on getting an appropriate accessory to handle sound, phones are also an alternative worth looking into.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTdU_5c77__7y3igaHAauOyAvo2crj2cp
-- +Rexford http://google.com/+Nkansahrexford | khophi.co http://khophi.co/about
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-- Asaf Bartov Wikimedia Foundation http://www.wikimediafoundation.org/
Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality! https://donate.wikimedia.org
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
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Now that’s a good idea!
The possible problem is that the criteria for awarding scholarships does not necessarily mean any particular competency in video recording (I’m guessing journalism students might be a bit more capable in this area) but it’s worth a try.
And why limit it to scholarship holders? Why not extend it to anyone attending on donor money including WMF staff? With that total number of people, then the obligation on any individual isn’t large (doesn’t overly interfere with their ability to attend the sessions they want) and the risk of failure of an individual to do it well enough doesn’t expose the exercise as a whole to too much risk.
Kerry
From: wikimania-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:wikimania-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Lih Sent: Thursday, 6 August 2015 3:33 AM To: Wikimania general list (open subscription) wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Video recording of Wikimania sessions
I think a good use of our scholarship money would be to ask for service obligations, such as being part of the video recording crew.
I've been part of professional journalism organizations and this is done annually with great results -- we call it the "student newsroom." Applicants who are accepted get a full scholarship to attend, have a well-defined set of service obligations around reporting on the conference, and the benefit is that they get to see other sessions and rub shoulders with people they would have otherwise never get to meet.
-Andrew
-Andrew Lih Associate professor of journalism, American University Email: andrew@andrewlih.com mailto:andrew@andrewlih.com WEB: http://www.andrewlih.com BOOK: The Wikipedia Revolution: http://www.wikipediarevolution.com http://www.wikipediarevolution.com PROJECT: Wiki Makes Video http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wiki_Makes_Video
On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 11:59 AM, WereSpielChequers <werespielchequers@gmail.com mailto:werespielchequers@gmail.com > wrote:
I suspect if we put out a call in advance we would be able to get a lot of the equipment we need. I would have brought a tripod for this wikimania if I'd known in advance it was needed (not so likely to be possible next year as I may need to bring a tent and sleeping bag).
On 3 August 2015 at 19:40, Ellie Young <eyoung@wikimedia.org mailto:eyoung@wikimedia.org > wrote:
There will be videos of the featured speakers, some of the hackathon, and a documentary available soon. People involved in this will presumably be posting when these are available and up on Commons, etc.
I think in the future we might want to consider having cameras/tripods and especially good audio recording in each of the session rooms. (I think that might be something WMF could provide equipment and make sure A-V service has good audio especially.) We could then ask for volunteers on site to handle logistics/recordings. This wouldn’t involve a lot of editing or post-production work/expense… as long as people know that it would be pretty “basic”, but making sure we have good audio especially.
I wil ask the upcoming Wikimania organizing team what they think of this idea and perhaps they will come up with a plan and/or put out a call for partcipation to make this happen next year?
Ellie
WMF Conference Coordinator
On Aug 3, 2015, at 11:30 AM, Joseph Fox <josephfoxwiki@gmail.com mailto:josephfoxwiki@gmail.com > wrote:
I believe at least one press outlet was recording some talks, presumably to serve as b-roll. Perhaps what you saw was one of those?
Joe
On Mon, 3 Aug 2015 at 19:21 とある白い猫 <to.aru.shiroi.neko@gmail.com mailto:to.aru.shiroi.neko@gmail.com > wrote:
Andrew++
I find it odd that we are willing to have a huge budget for Wikimania and none for recording videos of talks for non-attendees to view. I think we owe it to them. It can be crowdfunded if need be.
An interesting idea perhaps is to group video if we have a reliable way to crowd source this.
I did notice a video cam recording the talk after mine. I am unsure if mine was recorded as well. Does anyone know who was operating the tripod camera? I seen it in other talks too.
-- とある白い猫 (To Aru Shiroi Neko)
On 18 July 2015 at 23:17, Asaf Bartov <abartov@wikimedia.org mailto:abartov@wikimedia.org > wrote:
Andrew++.
A.
On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Andrew Lih <andrew@andrewlih.com mailto:andrew@andrewlih.com > wrote:
I'm trying to guerrilla video record as many Wikimania sessions that I can attend, so I cannot respond at length.
But I do want to say: the cost/benefit analysis needs to consider the quality of the viewers and not just the quantity.
When a Wikipedian in Residence can show their institution the video of their Wikimania presentation as evidence of impact and engagement, it can lead to renewal of their positions and more initiatives.
When the video of a Wikimania panel on COI and PR editing can convince more multi-billion dollar PR firm to understand our guidelines and terms of use, that's a major outcome.
When someone talks about Wiki Loves Earth, #100wikidays or other grassroots projects, video provides a unique window into the emotions and motivations you cannot capture in a mailing list or blog post.
When in 10 years, we want to know the passions and personalities that led us to where the movement is, where will we look?
If we're expecting Wikimania videos to rack up the same views as LOLcats, it ain't going to happen. It has always been a very small core community does a massive amount of the innovation and work that keeps the projects going, and the ability to talk to each other in deep, complex and accessible ways is vital.
For a movement dedicated to capturing the sum of all human knowledge, it's surprising how blasé we are in letting our own community history fall by the wayside.
-Andrew Lih Associate professor of journalism, American University Email: andrew@andrewlih.com mailto:andrew@andrewlih.com WEB: http://www.andrewlih.com http://www.andrewlih.com/ BOOK: The Wikipedia Revolution: http://www.wikipediarevolution.com http://www.wikipediarevolution.com/ PROJECT: Wiki Makes Video http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wiki_Makes_Video
On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 9:31 AM, Nkansah Rexford <nkansahrexford@gmail.com mailto:nkansahrexford@gmail.com > wrote:
Recording video* is easy; you can do it on most mobile phones these days.
And on that note, the wiki indaba conference was recorded solely on a mobile phone[1]. Although sound quality wasn't the best, with considerable thought on getting an appropriate accessory to handle sound, phones are also an alternative worth looking into.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTdU_5c77__7y3igaHAauOyAvo2crj2cp
Hi,
when can we expect the missing videos from the auditorium to be uploaded to Commons? There already some videos of the conference viewable at https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikimania_2015_presentation_vide... , but especially Sunday's presentations still seem to be missing.
Cheers, Philip
On 5 August 2015 at 14:45, Kerry Raymond kerry.raymond@gmail.com wrote:
Now that’s a good idea!
The possible problem is that the criteria for awarding scholarships does not necessarily mean any particular competency in video recording (I’m guessing journalism students might be a bit more capable in this area) but it’s worth a try.
And why limit it to scholarship holders? Why not extend it to anyone attending on donor money including WMF staff? With that total number of people, then the obligation on any individual isn’t large (doesn’t overly interfere with their ability to attend the sessions they want) and the risk of failure of an individual to do it well enough doesn’t expose the exercise as a whole to too much risk.
Kerry
*From:* wikimania-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto: wikimania-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] *On Behalf Of *Andrew Lih *Sent:* Thursday, 6 August 2015 3:33 AM *To:* Wikimania general list (open subscription) < wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org> *Subject:* Re: [Wikimania-l] Video recording of Wikimania sessions
I think a good use of our scholarship money would be to ask for service obligations, such as being part of the video recording crew.
I've been part of professional journalism organizations and this is done annually with great results -- we call it the "student newsroom." Applicants who are accepted get a full scholarship to attend, have a well-defined set of service obligations around reporting on the conference, and the benefit is that they get to see other sessions and rub shoulders with people they would have otherwise never get to meet.
-Andrew
-Andrew Lih Associate professor of journalism, American University Email: andrew@andrewlih.com WEB: http://www.andrewlih.com BOOK: The Wikipedia Revolution: http://www.wikipediarevolution.com PROJECT: Wiki Makes Video http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wiki_Makes_Video
On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 11:59 AM, WereSpielChequers < werespielchequers@gmail.com> wrote:
I suspect if we put out a call in advance we would be able to get a lot of the equipment we need. I would have brought a tripod for this wikimania if I'd known in advance it was needed (not so likely to be possible next year as I may need to bring a tent and sleeping bag).
On 3 August 2015 at 19:40, Ellie Young eyoung@wikimedia.org wrote:
There will be videos of the featured speakers, some of the hackathon, and a documentary available soon. People involved in this will presumably be posting when these are available and up on Commons, etc.
I think in the future we might want to consider having cameras/tripods and especially good audio recording in each of the session rooms. (I think that might be something WMF could provide equipment and make sure A-V service has good audio especially.) We could then ask for volunteers on site to handle logistics/recordings. This wouldn’t involve a lot of editing or post-production work/expense… as long as people know that it would be pretty “basic”, but making sure we have good audio especially.
I wil ask the upcoming Wikimania organizing team what they think of this idea and perhaps they will come up with a plan and/or put out a call for partcipation to make this happen next year?
Ellie
WMF Conference Coordinator
On Aug 3, 2015, at 11:30 AM, Joseph Fox josephfoxwiki@gmail.com wrote:
I believe at least one press outlet was recording some talks, presumably to serve as b-roll. Perhaps what you saw was one of those?
Joe
On Mon, 3 Aug 2015 at 19:21 とある白い猫 to.aru.shiroi.neko@gmail.com wrote:
Andrew++
I find it odd that we are willing to have a huge budget for Wikimania and none for recording videos of talks for non-attendees to view. I think we owe it to them. It can be crowdfunded if need be.
An interesting idea perhaps is to group video if we have a reliable way to crowd source this.
I did notice a video cam recording the talk after mine. I am unsure if mine was recorded as well. Does anyone know who was operating the tripod camera? I seen it in other talks too.
-- とある白い猫 (To Aru Shiroi Neko)
On 18 July 2015 at 23:17, Asaf Bartov abartov@wikimedia.org wrote:
Andrew++.
A.
On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Andrew Lih andrew@andrewlih.com wrote:
I'm trying to guerrilla video record as many Wikimania sessions that I can attend, so I cannot respond at length.
But I do want to say: the cost/benefit analysis needs to consider the quality of the viewers and not just the quantity.
When a Wikipedian in Residence can show their institution the video of their Wikimania presentation as evidence of impact and engagement, it can lead to renewal of their positions and more initiatives.
When the video of a Wikimania panel on COI and PR editing can convince more multi-billion dollar PR firm to understand our guidelines and terms of use, that's a major outcome.
When someone talks about Wiki Loves Earth, #100wikidays or other grassroots projects, video provides a unique window into the emotions and motivations you cannot capture in a mailing list or blog post.
When in 10 years, we want to know the passions and personalities that led us to where the movement is, where will we look?
If we're expecting Wikimania videos to rack up the same views as LOLcats, it ain't going to happen. It has always been a very small core community does a massive amount of the innovation and work that keeps the projects going, and the ability to talk to each other in deep, complex and accessible ways is vital.
For a movement dedicated to capturing the sum of all human knowledge, it's surprising how blasé we are in letting our own community history fall by the wayside.
-Andrew Lih Associate professor of journalism, American University Email: andrew@andrewlih.com WEB: http://www.andrewlih.com BOOK: The Wikipedia Revolution: http://www.wikipediarevolution.com PROJECT: Wiki Makes Video http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wiki_Makes_Video
On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 9:31 AM, Nkansah Rexford nkansahrexford@gmail.com wrote:
Recording video* is easy; you can do it on most mobile phones these days.
And on that note, the wiki indaba conference was recorded solely on a mobile phone[1]. Although sound quality wasn't the best, with considerable thought on getting an appropriate accessory to handle sound, phones are also an alternative worth looking into.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTdU_5c77__7y3igaHAauOyAvo2crj2cp
--
+Rexford http://google.com/+Nkansahrexford | khophi.co http://khophi.co/about
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As someone who has never attended a Wikimania but would like to, I don’t think videos are the solution. As someone who has organised conferences and had this issue of videoing come up, again I don’t think videos are the solution.
Folks who can’t attend events for whatever reason do ask for videos (I’ve done it too!). However, I would suggest looking hard at the stats on how often videos are viewed (and if there is a way to know if they are viewed all the way through or not). I know that I might look at videos of a couple of keynotes and maybe some talk that someone really recommends to me knowing my interest, but I would be genuinely unlikely to look at a whole lot of them. When people say “I wish I could go to Wikimania”, I don’t think they are saying “I wish I could listen to those talks”. Conferences are much more about the opportunity to interact, including the opportunity to interact in relation to the talks. Also, when you go to a conference, you are committed to setting aside those days of your life to focussing on the conference (well, that used to be the case, now with mobile devices and wifi, everyone sits in conferences reading their email, checking FaceBook, and keeping on top of their job back home, and generally misses hearing the talks even though they are in the same room!). If you aren’t going to the conference, you don’t have the big block of time in your life set aside to watch all the videos. Also a conference generates its own excitement, you’re there and your endorphins are working overtime. With watching videos after the event, you don’t have that buzz. When I watch videos, I know I often give them my attention for a couple of minutes, then have them going while I read email or whatever – the video finishes and I haven’t heard it as my mind has been elsewhere.
And, no matter what people say, there is a lot of work involved in creating videos both during the event and in postprocessing after the event. People say “quality doesn’t matter” in advance but then people complain afterwards if the quality isn’t perfect (can’t see the speaker clearly, can’t hear the speaker clearly, can’t see the slide projection). Again people say this can be done with volunteers, but actually your volunteers are wanting to engage with the conference, not spend the whole conference messing around with video equipment. And if the videos are not captured well in the first place, it’s hard to fix those problems after the event.
Also video postprocessing is mostly done after the event (it’s too busy during the event). What people (who don’t organise conferences) don’t seem to understand is that for organisers, the end of the conference means a return to their normal activities. For months, they’ve been putting off their boss, colleagues, family and friends with “please, can this wait until after the conference”. Of course, there are post-conference actions that have to be done (payments and accounts finalised, thank you letters written, reports written, etc) but, as far as your boss/colleagues/family/friends are concerned, the conference is OVER – you have no favours left, you have to make it up to them. It’s hard enough to fit in the minimum post-conference actions that you have to do, let alone extra things like high quality videos. And the adrenaline that allowed you and your volunteers to get everything done before and during the conference has now deserted you; you’ve run your race and have nothing left in your tank.
So videoing and postprocessing often ends up being done by professionals, meaning a lot of money spent. It’s so easy to say “use volunteers” but the thing about volunteers is that they do the things they want when they feel like doing them to the extent of their ability. And doing them in the middle of the conference and after the conference is not a great time for that (they want to engage with the conference and they need to return to their normal duties after the event too). And you might have the volunteers but who just don’t have that skill set. Also unless you get those videos out quickly, nobody will watch them – the momentum is lost.
In summary, I think it is much cheaper and easier to collect presentation slides or speaker notes or whatever other material the presenter has and make them available as a way to get conference content to non-attendees and this should be the preferred strategy for the bulk of presentations. Videos should be limited to keynotes or talks expected to be of particular interest. Stats on viewing and perhaps surveying on how much of the videos are being viewed should be collected to see how much the videos are actually used. And look at using professionals to do the video work, unless you really do have suitably skilled volunteers available (and not committed to other tasks), if you want the videos to be of good quality and be available quickly.
Kerry
From: wikimania-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:wikimania-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of ?????? Sent: Tuesday, 4 August 2015 4:22 AM To: Wikimania general list (open subscription) wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Video recording of Wikimania sessions
Andrew++
I find it odd that we are willing to have a huge budget for Wikimania and none for recording videos of talks for non-attendees to view. I think we owe it to them. It can be crowdfunded if need be.
An interesting idea perhaps is to group video if we have a reliable way to crowd source this.
I did notice a video cam recording the talk after mine. I am unsure if mine was recorded as well. Does anyone know who was operating the tripod camera? I seen it in other talks too.
-- とある白い猫 (To Aru Shiroi Neko)
On 18 July 2015 at 23:17, Asaf Bartov <abartov@wikimedia.org mailto:abartov@wikimedia.org > wrote:
Andrew++.
A.
On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Andrew Lih <andrew@andrewlih.com mailto:andrew@andrewlih.com > wrote:
I'm trying to guerrilla video record as many Wikimania sessions that I can attend, so I cannot respond at length.
But I do want to say: the cost/benefit analysis needs to consider the quality of the viewers and not just the quantity.
When a Wikipedian in Residence can show their institution the video of their Wikimania presentation as evidence of impact and engagement, it can lead to renewal of their positions and more initiatives.
When the video of a Wikimania panel on COI and PR editing can convince more multi-billion dollar PR firm to understand our guidelines and terms of use, that's a major outcome.
When someone talks about Wiki Loves Earth, #100wikidays or other grassroots projects, video provides a unique window into the emotions and motivations you cannot capture in a mailing list or blog post.
When in 10 years, we want to know the passions and personalities that led us to where the movement is, where will we look?
If we're expecting Wikimania videos to rack up the same views as LOLcats, it ain't going to happen. It has always been a very small core community does a massive amount of the innovation and work that keeps the projects going, and the ability to talk to each other in deep, complex and accessible ways is vital.
For a movement dedicated to capturing the sum of all human knowledge, it's surprising how blasé we are in letting our own community history fall by the wayside.
-Andrew Lih Associate professor of journalism, American University Email: andrew@andrewlih.com mailto:andrew@andrewlih.com WEB: http://www.andrewlih.com BOOK: The Wikipedia Revolution: http://www.wikipediarevolution.com http://www.wikipediarevolution.com PROJECT: Wiki Makes Video http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wiki_Makes_Video
On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 9:31 AM, Nkansah Rexford <nkansahrexford@gmail.com mailto:nkansahrexford@gmail.com > wrote:
Recording video* is easy; you can do it on most mobile phones these days.
And on that note, the wiki indaba conference was recorded solely on a mobile phone[1]. Although sound quality wasn't the best, with considerable thought on getting an appropriate accessory to handle sound, phones are also an alternative worth looking into.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTdU_5c77__7y3igaHAauOyAvo2crj2cp
However, I would suggest looking hard at the stats on how often videos are viewed (and if there is a way to know if they are viewed all the way through or not).
For Wikimania 2014, the Youtube page https://www.youtube.com/user/WikimaniaLondon/videos and livestream https://livestream.com/wikimania show some stats (videos are also available in Commons so some views may not be captured in the former pages). On livestream, were videos were shared first, the most viewed video shows 2,359 views, it is not hard to find videos in the 100-500 view range, and others just have less than 20 views.
Personally, even though I attended Wikimania this year I'd like to have recordings available in order to (a) view sessions I was interested in but I had to miss due to parallel tracks, and (b) be able to distribute the recordings about the projects I'm involved in with the people that are interested in those projects.
Pau
On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 12:13 AM, Kerry Raymond kerry.raymond@gmail.com wrote:
As someone who has never attended a Wikimania but would like to, I don’t think videos are the solution. As someone who has organised conferences and had this issue of videoing come up, again I don’t think videos are the solution.
Folks who can’t attend events for whatever reason do ask for videos (I’ve done it too!). However, I would suggest looking hard at the stats on how often videos are viewed (and if there is a way to know if they are viewed all the way through or not). I know that I might look at videos of a couple of keynotes and maybe some talk that someone really recommends to me knowing my interest, but I would be genuinely unlikely to look at a whole lot of them. When people say “I wish I could go to Wikimania”, I don’t think they are saying “I wish I could listen to those talks”. Conferences are much more about the opportunity to interact, including the opportunity to interact in relation to the talks. Also, when you go to a conference, you are committed to setting aside those days of your life to focussing on the conference (well, that used to be the case, now with mobile devices and wifi, everyone sits in conferences reading their email, checking FaceBook, and keeping on top of their job back home, and generally misses hearing the talks even though they are in the same room!). If you aren’t going to the conference, you don’t have the big block of time in your life set aside to watch all the videos. Also a conference generates its own excitement, you’re there and your endorphins are working overtime. With watching videos after the event, you don’t have that buzz. When I watch videos, I know I often give them my attention for a couple of minutes, then have them going while I read email or whatever – the video finishes and I haven’t heard it as my mind has been elsewhere.
And, no matter what people say, there is a lot of work involved in creating videos both during the event and in postprocessing after the event. People say “quality doesn’t matter” in advance but then people complain afterwards if the quality isn’t perfect (can’t see the speaker clearly, can’t hear the speaker clearly, can’t see the slide projection). Again people say this can be done with volunteers, but actually your volunteers are wanting to engage with the conference, not spend the whole conference messing around with video equipment. And if the videos are not captured well in the first place, it’s hard to fix those problems after the event.
Also video postprocessing is mostly done after the event (it’s too busy during the event). What people (who don’t organise conferences) don’t seem to understand is that for organisers, the end of the conference means a return to their normal activities. For months, they’ve been putting off their boss, colleagues, family and friends with “please, can this wait until after the conference”. Of course, there are post-conference actions that have to be done (payments and accounts finalised, thank you letters written, reports written, etc) but, as far as your boss/colleagues/family/friends are concerned, the conference is OVER – you have no favours left, you have to make it up to them. It’s hard enough to fit in the minimum post-conference actions that you have to do, let alone extra things like high quality videos. And the adrenaline that allowed you and your volunteers to get everything done before and during the conference has now deserted you; you’ve run your race and have nothing left in your tank.
So videoing and postprocessing often ends up being done by professionals, meaning a lot of money spent. It’s so easy to say “use volunteers” but the thing about volunteers is that they do the things they want when they feel like doing them to the extent of their ability. And doing them in the middle of the conference and after the conference is not a great time for that (they want to engage with the conference and they need to return to their normal duties after the event too). And you might have the volunteers but who just don’t have that skill set. Also unless you get those videos out quickly, nobody will watch them – the momentum is lost.
In summary, I think it is much cheaper and easier to collect presentation slides or speaker notes or whatever other material the presenter has and make them available as a way to get conference content to non-attendees and this should be the preferred strategy for the bulk of presentations. Videos should be limited to keynotes or talks expected to be of particular interest. Stats on viewing and perhaps surveying on how much of the videos are being viewed should be collected to see how much the videos are actually used. And look at using professionals to do the video work, unless you really do have suitably skilled volunteers available (and not committed to other tasks), if you want the videos to be of good quality and be available quickly.
Kerry
*From:* wikimania-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto: wikimania-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] *On Behalf Of *?????? *Sent:* Tuesday, 4 August 2015 4:22 AM *To:* Wikimania general list (open subscription) < wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org> *Subject:* Re: [Wikimania-l] Video recording of Wikimania sessions
Andrew++
I find it odd that we are willing to have a huge budget for Wikimania and none for recording videos of talks for non-attendees to view. I think we owe it to them. It can be crowdfunded if need be.
An interesting idea perhaps is to group video if we have a reliable way to crowd source this.
I did notice a video cam recording the talk after mine. I am unsure if mine was recorded as well. Does anyone know who was operating the tripod camera? I seen it in other talks too.
-- とある白い猫 (To Aru Shiroi Neko)
On 18 July 2015 at 23:17, Asaf Bartov abartov@wikimedia.org wrote:
Andrew++.
A.
On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Andrew Lih andrew@andrewlih.com wrote:
I'm trying to guerrilla video record as many Wikimania sessions that I can attend, so I cannot respond at length.
But I do want to say: the cost/benefit analysis needs to consider the quality of the viewers and not just the quantity.
When a Wikipedian in Residence can show their institution the video of their Wikimania presentation as evidence of impact and engagement, it can lead to renewal of their positions and more initiatives.
When the video of a Wikimania panel on COI and PR editing can convince more multi-billion dollar PR firm to understand our guidelines and terms of use, that's a major outcome.
When someone talks about Wiki Loves Earth, #100wikidays or other grassroots projects, video provides a unique window into the emotions and motivations you cannot capture in a mailing list or blog post.
When in 10 years, we want to know the passions and personalities that led us to where the movement is, where will we look?
If we're expecting Wikimania videos to rack up the same views as LOLcats, it ain't going to happen. It has always been a very small core community does a massive amount of the innovation and work that keeps the projects going, and the ability to talk to each other in deep, complex and accessible ways is vital.
For a movement dedicated to capturing the sum of all human knowledge, it's surprising how blasé we are in letting our own community history fall by the wayside.
-Andrew Lih Associate professor of journalism, American University Email: andrew@andrewlih.com WEB: http://www.andrewlih.com BOOK: The Wikipedia Revolution: http://www.wikipediarevolution.com PROJECT: Wiki Makes Video http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wiki_Makes_Video
On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 9:31 AM, Nkansah Rexford nkansahrexford@gmail.com wrote:
Recording video* is easy; you can do it on most mobile phones these days.
And on that note, the wiki indaba conference was recorded solely on a mobile phone[1]. Although sound quality wasn't the best, with considerable thought on getting an appropriate accessory to handle sound, phones are also an alternative worth looking into.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTdU_5c77__7y3igaHAauOyAvo2crj2cp
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However, I would suggest looking hard at the stats on how often videos are
viewed (and if there is a way to know if they are viewed all the way through or not).
For Wikimania 2014, the Youtube page https://www.youtube.com/user/WikimaniaLondon/videos and livestream https://livestream.com/wikimania show some stats (videos are also available in Commons so some views may not be captured in the former pages). On livestream, were videos were shared first, the most viewed video shows 2,359 views, it is not hard to find videos in the 100-500 view range, and others just have less than 20 views.
It's certainly a professional job to get all the session video produced and published in good time after the conference. No volunteer team could do this, it requires a LOT of equipment, professional expertise and hard work.
To me, the view numbers seem *excellent -* if you consider the conference in terms of price-per-attendee, spending <5% more so that additional hundreds can see the content is an order of magnitude better value.
*Edward Saperia* Conference Director Wikimania London http://www.wikimanialondon.com email edsaperia@gmail.com • facebook http://www.facebook.com/edsaperia • twitter http://www.twitter.com/edsaperia • 07796955572 133-135 Bethnal Green Road, E2 7DG
I very much agree with Ed in both accounts: 1) video production requires a professional team 2) Views were fairly high for the limited promotion and such put into sharing the videos.
I think though our social media reach in 2014 was a lot better because we had a lot if volunteers working around communications.
Naureen
On Friday, 14 August 2015, Edward Saperia edsaperia@gmail.com wrote:
However, I would suggest looking hard at the stats on how often videos are
viewed (and if there is a way to know if they are viewed all the way through or not).
For Wikimania 2014, the Youtube page https://www.youtube.com/user/WikimaniaLondon/videos and livestream https://livestream.com/wikimania show some stats (videos are also available in Commons so some views may not be captured in the former pages). On livestream, were videos were shared first, the most viewed video shows 2,359 views, it is not hard to find videos in the 100-500 view range, and others just have less than 20 views.
It's certainly a professional job to get all the session video produced and published in good time after the conference. No volunteer team could do this, it requires a LOT of equipment, professional expertise and hard work.
To me, the view numbers seem *excellent -* if you consider the conference in terms of price-per-attendee, spending <5% more so that additional hundreds can see the content is an order of magnitude better value.
*Edward Saperia* Conference Director Wikimania London http://www.wikimanialondon.com email javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','edsaperia@gmail.com'); • facebook http://www.facebook.com/edsaperia • twitter http://www.twitter.com/edsaperia • 07796955572 133-135 Bethnal Green Road, E2 7DG
Well a good work-around there is to live stream the sessions. That way no one, neither volunteers or professionals need to do anything after the conference. In Gdansk 2010 all sessions were live streamed. That no Wikimania after that has held up to that standard is confusing me. /Jan Ainali
On August 14, 2015, Edward Saperia edsaperia@gmail.com wrote:
However, I would suggest looking hard at the stats on how often videos are viewed (and if there is a way to know if they are viewed all the way through or not).
For Wikimania 2014, the Youtube page https://www.youtube.com/user/WikimaniaLondon/videos and livestream https://livestream.com/wikimania show some stats (videos are also available in Commons so some views may not be captured in the former pages). On livestream, were videos were shared first, the most viewed video shows 2,359 views, it is not hard to find videos in the 100-500 view range, and others just have less than 20 views.
It's certainly a professional job to get all the session video produced and published in good time after the conference. No volunteer team could do this, it requires a LOT of equipment, professional expertise and hard work.
To me, the view numbers seem excellent - if you consider the conference in terms of price-per-attendee, spending <5% more so that additional hundreds can see the content is an order of magnitude better value.
Edward Saperia Conference Director Wikimania London http://www.wikimanialondon.com email edsaperia@gmail.com•facebook http://www.facebook.com/edsaperia•twitter http://www.twitter.com/edsaperia•07796955572 133-135 Bethnal Green Road, E2 7DG
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
As another anecdotal data point, I had a technical discussion go awry this week because someone was pointed to my slides, which I'd written assuming the sessions would be recorded (ie, I didn't spend time on extensive speaker notes). The reader got confused without the context of the spoken talk, and wrote a moderately-hot flame about what they assumed my talk "must have been about" based on the slides (missing the point, I'm afraid).
So: without video not only are the slides I posted not useful, they seem to have been actively *detrimental* to the cause. It would be better if I hadn't posted them.
Certainly part of the blame is mine for being overly clever in my talk (jokes and tone of voice being hard to capture on slides). But I do wish we'd taken the time to archive this little bit of "the world's knowledge" when it happened. Looks like I'm going to have to re-present the talk at some point in order to get it properly recorded. --scott
Every Wikimania has its strengths, and its weaknesses.
Most Wikimanias are organised by a great group of volunteers - often the bottle neck. That also offers an advantage: if you care a lot about a specific issue (like live streaming), that gives you the opportunity to volunteer to organise that, and make it happen in an awesome way. It does not guarantee that it happens (because you also need equipment etc), but with a dedicated volunteer to make it happen, who could potentially even rally to get the funding for it (grants anyone?), you significantly increase the odds.
Lodewijk
On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 11:14 PM, Jan Ainali jan@ainali.com wrote:
Well a good work-around there is to live stream the sessions. That way no one, neither volunteers or professionals need to do anything after the conference. In Gdansk 2010 all sessions were live streamed. That no Wikimania after that has held up to that standard is confusing me.
/Jan Ainali
On August 14, 2015, Edward Saperia edsaperia@gmail.com wrote:
However, I would suggest looking hard at the stats on how often videos are viewed (and if there is a way to know if they are viewed all the way through or not).
For Wikimania 2014, the Youtube page https://www.youtube.com/user/WikimaniaLondon/videos and livestream https://livestream.com/wikimania show some stats (videos are also available in Commons so some views may not be captured in the former pages). On livestream, were videos were shared first, the most viewed video shows 2,359 views, it is not hard to find videos in the 100-500 view range, and others just have less than 20 views.
It's certainly a professional job to get all the session video produced and published in good time after the conference. No volunteer team could do this, it requires a LOT of equipment, professional expertise and hard work.
To me, the view numbers seem *excellent -* if you consider the conference in terms of price-per-attendee, spending <5% more so that additional hundreds can see the content is an order of magnitude better value.
*Edward Saperia* Conference Director Wikimania London http://www.wikimanialondon.com email edsaperia@gmail.com • facebook http://www.facebook.com/edsaperia • twitter http://www.twitter.com/edsaperia • 07796955572 133-135 Bethnal Green Road, E2 7DG
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On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 2:14 PM, Jan Ainali jan@ainali.com wrote:
Well a good work-around there is to live stream the sessions. That way no
one, neither volunteers or professionals need to do anything after the conference. In Gdansk 2010 all sessions were live streamed. That no Wikimania after that has held up to that standard is confusing me.
That is actually a good example of a bad example. :) The sessions were indeed live-streamed, and it actually worked. But to this day, this category is empty: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikimania_2010_presentation_vide...
Despite the sessions _also_ being recorded, in all four tracks, the recordings have disappeared with the vendor under confusing circumstances, and several attempts to recover them have all foundered (I never found out the details); the recordings are lost to the movement to this day.
More generally, I'll say the arguments made in favor of recording (particularly by Andrew Lih, Victor Grigas, and Ed Saperia) are persuasive to me, and I'm in favor of the extra investment in the future.
A.
+1 to that!
On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 1:28 AM, Asaf Bartov abartov@wikimedia.org wrote:
On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 2:14 PM, Jan Ainali jan@ainali.com wrote:
Well a good work-around there is to live stream the sessions. That way no
one, neither volunteers or professionals need to do anything after the conference. In Gdansk 2010 all sessions were live streamed. That no Wikimania after that has held up to that standard is confusing me.
That is actually a good example of a bad example. :) The sessions were indeed live-streamed, and it actually worked. But to this day, this category is empty:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikimania_2010_presentation_vide...
Despite the sessions _also_ being recorded, in all four tracks, the recordings have disappeared with the vendor under confusing circumstances, and several attempts to recover them have all foundered (I never found out the details); the recordings are lost to the movement to this day.
More generally, I'll say the arguments made in favor of recording (particularly by Andrew Lih, Victor Grigas, and Ed Saperia) are persuasive to me, and I'm in favor of the extra investment in the future.
A.
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I agree with Kerry Raymond that (1) we won't get professional quality videos without professional staff and/or equipment, and that (2) not many people will watch videos of presentations from beginning to end.
But it is valuable to make some amateur videos at Wikimania anyway. Andrew Lih gave examples of using them to communicate directly to individuals. Here are more uses:
* *note taking*: People can take notes based on videos, and share them as text or wikitext. I'm doing this to share my experience at Wikimania 2015 with colleagues, including notes from some talks I did not actually attend, using Andrew's videos which are definitely good enough for this purpose. * *historical record*: a video gives strong evidence that the event did or didn't happen and that certain things were said or were not said * *transcription*: Videos can be transcribed and perhaps subtitled on wikisource * *translation*: . . . and those transcriptions can be in languages other than the one of the original presentation
A video or book or web page or other informational unit can be useful to people beyond those who read or watch it from beginning to end. Really they are all fragmentary like wiki articles. No one has time to experience everything. We benefit from processing and interpretation by others. In this case these benefits depend partly on the experience being recorded.
So I volunteer to take some video or audio recordings at future Wikimanias. Many of us can do this. We'll need training or equipment but the hackathon in advance gives time for it. It's a skill worth having. Hopefully it gets easier over time as more and more of us are walking around with devices that can record.
On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 6:13 PM, Kerry Raymond kerry.raymond@gmail.com wrote:
As someone who has never attended a Wikimania but would like to, I don’t think videos are the solution. As someone who has organised conferences and had this issue of videoing come up, again I don’t think videos are the solution.
Folks who can’t attend events for whatever reason do ask for videos (I’ve done it too!). However, I would suggest looking hard at the stats on how often videos are viewed (and if there is a way to know if they are viewed all the way through or not). I know that I might look at videos of a couple of keynotes and maybe some talk that someone really recommends to me knowing my interest, but I would be genuinely unlikely to look at a whole lot of them. When people say “I wish I could go to Wikimania”, I don’t think they are saying “I wish I could listen to those talks”. Conferences are much more about the opportunity to interact, including the opportunity to interact in relation to the talks. Also, when you go to a conference, you are committed to setting aside those days of your life to focussing on the conference (well, that used to be the case, now with mobile devices and wifi, everyone sits in conferences reading their email, checking FaceBook, and keeping on top of their job back home, and generally misses hearing the talks even though they are in the same room!). If you aren’t going to the conference, you don’t have the big block of time in your life set aside to watch all the videos. Also a conference generates its own excitement, you’re there and your endorphins are working overtime. With watching videos after the event, you don’t have that buzz. When I watch videos, I know I often give them my attention for a couple of minutes, then have them going while I read email or whatever – the video finishes and I haven’t heard it as my mind has been elsewhere.
And, no matter what people say, there is a lot of work involved in creating videos both during the event and in postprocessing after the event. People say “quality doesn’t matter” in advance but then people complain afterwards if the quality isn’t perfect (can’t see the speaker clearly, can’t hear the speaker clearly, can’t see the slide projection). Again people say this can be done with volunteers, but actually your volunteers are wanting to engage with the conference, not spend the whole conference messing around with video equipment. And if the videos are not captured well in the first place, it’s hard to fix those problems after the event.
Also video postprocessing is mostly done after the event (it’s too busy during the event). What people (who don’t organise conferences) don’t seem to understand is that for organisers, the end of the conference means a return to their normal activities. For months, they’ve been putting off their boss, colleagues, family and friends with “please, can this wait until after the conference”. Of course, there are post-conference actions that have to be done (payments and accounts finalised, thank you letters written, reports written, etc) but, as far as your boss/colleagues/family/friends are concerned, the conference is OVER – you have no favours left, you have to make it up to them. It’s hard enough to fit in the minimum post-conference actions that you have to do, let alone extra things like high quality videos. And the adrenaline that allowed you and your volunteers to get everything done before and during the conference has now deserted you; you’ve run your race and have nothing left in your tank.
So videoing and postprocessing often ends up being done by professionals, meaning a lot of money spent. It’s so easy to say “use volunteers” but the thing about volunteers is that they do the things they want when they feel like doing them to the extent of their ability. And doing them in the middle of the conference and after the conference is not a great time for that (they want to engage with the conference and they need to return to their normal duties after the event too). And you might have the volunteers but who just don’t have that skill set. Also unless you get those videos out quickly, nobody will watch them – the momentum is lost.
In summary, I think it is much cheaper and easier to collect presentation slides or speaker notes or whatever other material the presenter has and make them available as a way to get conference content to non-attendees and this should be the preferred strategy for the bulk of presentations. Videos should be limited to keynotes or talks expected to be of particular interest. Stats on viewing and perhaps surveying on how much of the videos are being viewed should be collected to see how much the videos are actually used. And look at using professionals to do the video work, unless you really do have suitably skilled volunteers available (and not committed to other tasks), if you want the videos to be of good quality and be available quickly.
Kerry
*From:* wikimania-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto: wikimania-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] *On Behalf Of *?????? *Sent:* Tuesday, 4 August 2015 4:22 AM *To:* Wikimania general list (open subscription) < wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org> *Subject:* Re: [Wikimania-l] Video recording of Wikimania sessions
Andrew++
I find it odd that we are willing to have a huge budget for Wikimania and none for recording videos of talks for non-attendees to view. I think we owe it to them. It can be crowdfunded if need be.
An interesting idea perhaps is to group video if we have a reliable way to crowd source this.
I did notice a video cam recording the talk after mine. I am unsure if mine was recorded as well. Does anyone know who was operating the tripod camera? I seen it in other talks too.
-- とある白い猫 (To Aru Shiroi Neko)
On 18 July 2015 at 23:17, Asaf Bartov abartov@wikimedia.org wrote:
Andrew++.
A.
On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Andrew Lih andrew@andrewlih.com wrote:
I'm trying to guerrilla video record as many Wikimania sessions that I can attend, so I cannot respond at length.
But I do want to say: the cost/benefit analysis needs to consider the quality of the viewers and not just the quantity.
When a Wikipedian in Residence can show their institution the video of their Wikimania presentation as evidence of impact and engagement, it can lead to renewal of their positions and more initiatives.
When the video of a Wikimania panel on COI and PR editing can convince more multi-billion dollar PR firm to understand our guidelines and terms of use, that's a major outcome.
When someone talks about Wiki Loves Earth, #100wikidays or other grassroots projects, video provides a unique window into the emotions and motivations you cannot capture in a mailing list or blog post.
When in 10 years, we want to know the passions and personalities that led us to where the movement is, where will we look?
If we're expecting Wikimania videos to rack up the same views as LOLcats, it ain't going to happen. It has always been a very small core community does a massive amount of the innovation and work that keeps the projects going, and the ability to talk to each other in deep, complex and accessible ways is vital.
For a movement dedicated to capturing the sum of all human knowledge, it's surprising how blasé we are in letting our own community history fall by the wayside.
-Andrew Lih Associate professor of journalism, American University Email: andrew@andrewlih.com WEB: http://www.andrewlih.com BOOK: The Wikipedia Revolution: http://www.wikipediarevolution.com PROJECT: Wiki Makes Video http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wiki_Makes_Video
On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 9:31 AM, Nkansah Rexford nkansahrexford@gmail.com wrote:
Recording video* is easy; you can do it on most mobile phones these days.
And on that note, the wiki indaba conference was recorded solely on a mobile phone[1]. Although sound quality wasn't the best, with considerable thought on getting an appropriate accessory to handle sound, phones are also an alternative worth looking into.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTdU_5c77__7y3igaHAauOyAvo2crj2cp
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Kerry, some comments on your observations:
1. By not recording the videos, we're being "penny wise and pound foolish." Given all the money and labor that's spent to stage Wikimania and getting people there to present, while feeding and housing them, I'd say it's borderline negligent not to memorialize and record people's presentations and insights for the rest of the community.
2. Yes, the fellowship and social mixing is a huge aspect of Wikimania. But that goal is not mutually exclusive of relaying the valuable insights of sessions and presenters to the greater community. In fact *because* hallway conversations and ad hoc meetings at Wikimania are so common and there are so many parallel tracks, most Wikimania attendees don't even get to see most of the sessions.
3. You're never going to see metrics on those videos that will approach viral hits on Youtube. But that's the wrong way of looking at it. If those videos get "only" hundreds of views, that's still 10x more than the number of people in the audience at a Wikimania session. It's the quality of who those hundreds of viewers makes a huge difference. We should be encouraging more communication among the small circle of folks who contribute to and develop the future of our software systems and community norms. (We've seen the tension that arises when developments like VisualEditor, and MediaViewer are perceived as being disconnected from the community, so we need to keep these lines of communication consistent and open.)
4. In just the past two weeks, I've been able to point people to the Wikimania 2015 videos to get caught up on important developments. For example, we're moving forward in significant ways on video, and in a recent planning call, I was able to direct new stakeholders and WMF staff to our Wikimania video presentations to get caught up on where we are. I've directed folks to the presentations of Aaron Shaw and Mako looking at Wikia and WikiHow as it has implications for en.wp IP editing policy. And multiple folks have asked whether Guillaume Paumier's highly praised talk "My life as an autistic Wikipedian" was recorded. Sadly, it was not.
5. Finally, don't let perfect video recording be the enemy of good video recording. Let's get video recording on the "must do" list, and then we can work on optimizing quality and price.
-Andrew Lih Associate professor of journalism, American University Email: andrew@andrewlih.com WEB: http://www.andrewlih.com BOOK: The Wikipedia Revolution: http://www.wikipediarevolution.com PROJECT: Wiki Makes Video http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wiki_Makes_Video
On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 3:13 PM, Kerry Raymond kerry.raymond@gmail.com wrote:
As someone who has never attended a Wikimania but would like to, I don’t think videos are the solution. As someone who has organised conferences and had this issue of videoing come up, again I don’t think videos are the solution.
Folks who can’t attend events for whatever reason do ask for videos (I’ve done it too!). However, I would suggest looking hard at the stats on how often videos are viewed (and if there is a way to know if they are viewed all the way through or not). I know that I might look at videos of a couple of keynotes and maybe some talk that someone really recommends to me knowing my interest, but I would be genuinely unlikely to look at a whole lot of them. When people say “I wish I could go to Wikimania”, I don’t think they are saying “I wish I could listen to those talks”. Conferences are much more about the opportunity to interact, including the opportunity to interact in relation to the talks. Also, when you go to a conference, you are committed to setting aside those days of your life to focussing on the conference (well, that used to be the case, now with mobile devices and wifi, everyone sits in conferences reading their email, checking FaceBook, and keeping on top of their job back home, and generally misses hearing the talks even though they are in the same room!). If you aren’t going to the conference, you don’t have the big block of time in your life set aside to watch all the videos. Also a conference generates its own excitement, you’re there and your endorphins are working overtime. With watching videos after the event, you don’t have that buzz. When I watch videos, I know I often give them my attention for a couple of minutes, then have them going while I read email or whatever – the video finishes and I haven’t heard it as my mind has been elsewhere.
And, no matter what people say, there is a lot of work involved in creating videos both during the event and in postprocessing after the event. People say “quality doesn’t matter” in advance but then people complain afterwards if the quality isn’t perfect (can’t see the speaker clearly, can’t hear the speaker clearly, can’t see the slide projection). Again people say this can be done with volunteers, but actually your volunteers are wanting to engage with the conference, not spend the whole conference messing around with video equipment. And if the videos are not captured well in the first place, it’s hard to fix those problems after the event.
Also video postprocessing is mostly done after the event (it’s too busy during the event). What people (who don’t organise conferences) don’t seem to understand is that for organisers, the end of the conference means a return to their normal activities. For months, they’ve been putting off their boss, colleagues, family and friends with “please, can this wait until after the conference”. Of course, there are post-conference actions that have to be done (payments and accounts finalised, thank you letters written, reports written, etc) but, as far as your boss/colleagues/family/friends are concerned, the conference is OVER – you have no favours left, you have to make it up to them. It’s hard enough to fit in the minimum post-conference actions that you have to do, let alone extra things like high quality videos. And the adrenaline that allowed you and your volunteers to get everything done before and during the conference has now deserted you; you’ve run your race and have nothing left in your tank.
So videoing and postprocessing often ends up being done by professionals, meaning a lot of money spent. It’s so easy to say “use volunteers” but the thing about volunteers is that they do the things they want when they feel like doing them to the extent of their ability. And doing them in the middle of the conference and after the conference is not a great time for that (they want to engage with the conference and they need to return to their normal duties after the event too). And you might have the volunteers but who just don’t have that skill set. Also unless you get those videos out quickly, nobody will watch them – the momentum is lost.
In summary, I think it is much cheaper and easier to collect presentation slides or speaker notes or whatever other material the presenter has and make them available as a way to get conference content to non-attendees and this should be the preferred strategy for the bulk of presentations. Videos should be limited to keynotes or talks expected to be of particular interest. Stats on viewing and perhaps surveying on how much of the videos are being viewed should be collected to see how much the videos are actually used. And look at using professionals to do the video work, unless you really do have suitably skilled volunteers available (and not committed to other tasks), if you want the videos to be of good quality and be available quickly.
Kerry
*From:* wikimania-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto: wikimania-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] *On Behalf Of *?????? *Sent:* Tuesday, 4 August 2015 4:22 AM *To:* Wikimania general list (open subscription) < wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org> *Subject:* Re: [Wikimania-l] Video recording of Wikimania sessions
Andrew++
I find it odd that we are willing to have a huge budget for Wikimania and none for recording videos of talks for non-attendees to view. I think we owe it to them. It can be crowdfunded if need be.
An interesting idea perhaps is to group video if we have a reliable way to crowd source this.
I did notice a video cam recording the talk after mine. I am unsure if mine was recorded as well. Does anyone know who was operating the tripod camera? I seen it in other talks too.
-- とある白い猫 (To Aru Shiroi Neko)
On 18 July 2015 at 23:17, Asaf Bartov abartov@wikimedia.org wrote:
Andrew++.
A.
On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Andrew Lih andrew@andrewlih.com wrote:
I'm trying to guerrilla video record as many Wikimania sessions that I can attend, so I cannot respond at length.
But I do want to say: the cost/benefit analysis needs to consider the quality of the viewers and not just the quantity.
When a Wikipedian in Residence can show their institution the video of their Wikimania presentation as evidence of impact and engagement, it can lead to renewal of their positions and more initiatives.
When the video of a Wikimania panel on COI and PR editing can convince more multi-billion dollar PR firm to understand our guidelines and terms of use, that's a major outcome.
When someone talks about Wiki Loves Earth, #100wikidays or other grassroots projects, video provides a unique window into the emotions and motivations you cannot capture in a mailing list or blog post.
When in 10 years, we want to know the passions and personalities that led us to where the movement is, where will we look?
If we're expecting Wikimania videos to rack up the same views as LOLcats, it ain't going to happen. It has always been a very small core community does a massive amount of the innovation and work that keeps the projects going, and the ability to talk to each other in deep, complex and accessible ways is vital.
For a movement dedicated to capturing the sum of all human knowledge, it's surprising how blasé we are in letting our own community history fall by the wayside.
-Andrew Lih Associate professor of journalism, American University Email: andrew@andrewlih.com WEB: http://www.andrewlih.com BOOK: The Wikipedia Revolution: http://www.wikipediarevolution.com PROJECT: Wiki Makes Video http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wiki_Makes_Video
On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 9:31 AM, Nkansah Rexford nkansahrexford@gmail.com wrote:
Recording video* is easy; you can do it on most mobile phones these days.
And on that note, the wiki indaba conference was recorded solely on a mobile phone[1]. Although sound quality wasn't the best, with considerable thought on getting an appropriate accessory to handle sound, phones are also an alternative worth looking into.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTdU_5c77__7y3igaHAauOyAvo2crj2cp
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If your talk was "Would you like some artificial intelligence with that?" then it was!
See this video about 28 minutes in:
https://archive.org/details/videoeditserver-101
-Andrew Lih Associate professor of journalism, American University Email: andrew@andrewlih.com WEB: http://www.andrewlih.com BOOK: The Wikipedia Revolution: http://www.wikipediarevolution.com PROJECT: Wiki Makes Video http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wiki_Makes_Video
On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 11:21 AM, とある白い猫 to.aru.shiroi.neko@gmail.com wrote:
Andrew++
I find it odd that we are willing to have a huge budget for Wikimania and none for recording videos of talks for non-attendees to view. I think we owe it to them. It can be crowdfunded if need be.
An interesting idea perhaps is to group video if we have a reliable way to crowd source this.
I did notice a video cam recording the talk after mine. I am unsure if mine was recorded as well. Does anyone know who was operating the tripod camera? I seen it in other talks too.
-- とある白い猫 (To Aru Shiroi Neko)
On 18 July 2015 at 23:17, Asaf Bartov abartov@wikimedia.org wrote:
Andrew++.
A.
On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Andrew Lih andrew@andrewlih.com wrote:
I'm trying to guerrilla video record as many Wikimania sessions that I can attend, so I cannot respond at length.
But I do want to say: the cost/benefit analysis needs to consider the quality of the viewers and not just the quantity.
When a Wikipedian in Residence can show their institution the video of their Wikimania presentation as evidence of impact and engagement, it can lead to renewal of their positions and more initiatives.
When the video of a Wikimania panel on COI and PR editing can convince more multi-billion dollar PR firm to understand our guidelines and terms of use, that's a major outcome.
When someone talks about Wiki Loves Earth, #100wikidays or other grassroots projects, video provides a unique window into the emotions and motivations you cannot capture in a mailing list or blog post.
When in 10 years, we want to know the passions and personalities that led us to where the movement is, where will we look?
If we're expecting Wikimania videos to rack up the same views as LOLcats, it ain't going to happen. It has always been a very small core community does a massive amount of the innovation and work that keeps the projects going, and the ability to talk to each other in deep, complex and accessible ways is vital.
For a movement dedicated to capturing the sum of all human knowledge, it's surprising how blasé we are in letting our own community history fall by the wayside.
-Andrew Lih Associate professor of journalism, American University Email: andrew@andrewlih.com WEB: http://www.andrewlih.com BOOK: The Wikipedia Revolution: http://www.wikipediarevolution.com PROJECT: Wiki Makes Video http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wiki_Makes_Video
On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 9:31 AM, Nkansah Rexford < nkansahrexford@gmail.com> wrote:
Recording video* is easy; you can do it on most mobile phones these
days.
And on that note, the wiki indaba conference was recorded solely on a mobile phone[1]. Although sound quality wasn't the best, with considerable thought on getting an appropriate accessory to handle sound, phones are also an alternative worth looking into.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTdU_5c77__7y3igaHAauOyAvo2crj2cp
-- +Rexford http://google.com/+Nkansahrexford | khophi.co http://khophi.co/about
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For the most part I agree with Kerry Raymond -
Ideally we'd do what was done in London and hire professionals. Failing that, I think that the solution is to have a hired production manager and a small army of volunteers who have passed some kind of bar of understanding of how video/audio works. The manager can give a crash course at the beginning of the event, and keep track of all the recordings as they come in. This gives the volunteers the ability to document their own movement (while they are excited).
On Wed, Aug 5, 2015 at 1:24 PM, Andrew Lih andrew@andrewlih.com wrote:
If your talk was "Would you like some artificial intelligence with that?" then it was!
See this video about 28 minutes in:
https://archive.org/details/videoeditserver-101
-Andrew Lih Associate professor of journalism, American University Email: andrew@andrewlih.com WEB: http://www.andrewlih.com BOOK: The Wikipedia Revolution: http://www.wikipediarevolution.com PROJECT: Wiki Makes Video http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wiki_Makes_Video
On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 11:21 AM, とある白い猫 to.aru.shiroi.neko@gmail.com wrote:
Andrew++
I find it odd that we are willing to have a huge budget for Wikimania and none for recording videos of talks for non-attendees to view. I think we owe it to them. It can be crowdfunded if need be.
An interesting idea perhaps is to group video if we have a reliable way to crowd source this.
I did notice a video cam recording the talk after mine. I am unsure if mine was recorded as well. Does anyone know who was operating the tripod camera? I seen it in other talks too.
-- とある白い猫 (To Aru Shiroi Neko)
On 18 July 2015 at 23:17, Asaf Bartov abartov@wikimedia.org wrote:
Andrew++.
A.
On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Andrew Lih andrew@andrewlih.com wrote:
I'm trying to guerrilla video record as many Wikimania sessions that I can attend, so I cannot respond at length.
But I do want to say: the cost/benefit analysis needs to consider the quality of the viewers and not just the quantity.
When a Wikipedian in Residence can show their institution the video of their Wikimania presentation as evidence of impact and engagement, it can lead to renewal of their positions and more initiatives.
When the video of a Wikimania panel on COI and PR editing can convince more multi-billion dollar PR firm to understand our guidelines and terms of use, that's a major outcome.
When someone talks about Wiki Loves Earth, #100wikidays or other grassroots projects, video provides a unique window into the emotions and motivations you cannot capture in a mailing list or blog post.
When in 10 years, we want to know the passions and personalities that led us to where the movement is, where will we look?
If we're expecting Wikimania videos to rack up the same views as LOLcats, it ain't going to happen. It has always been a very small core community does a massive amount of the innovation and work that keeps the projects going, and the ability to talk to each other in deep, complex and accessible ways is vital.
For a movement dedicated to capturing the sum of all human knowledge, it's surprising how blasé we are in letting our own community history fall by the wayside.
-Andrew Lih Associate professor of journalism, American University Email: andrew@andrewlih.com WEB: http://www.andrewlih.com BOOK: The Wikipedia Revolution: http://www.wikipediarevolution.com PROJECT: Wiki Makes Video http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wiki_Makes_Video
On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 9:31 AM, Nkansah Rexford < nkansahrexford@gmail.com> wrote:
Recording video* is easy; you can do it on most mobile phones these
days.
And on that note, the wiki indaba conference was recorded solely on a mobile phone[1]. Although sound quality wasn't the best, with considerable thought on getting an appropriate accessory to handle sound, phones are also an alternative worth looking into.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTdU_5c77__7y3igaHAauOyAvo2crj2cp
-- +Rexford http://google.com/+Nkansahrexford | khophi.co http://khophi.co/about
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On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 11:52 AM, Andrew Lih andrew@andrewlih.com wrote:
But I do want to say: the cost/benefit analysis needs to consider the quality of the viewers and not just the quantity.
Even if we only consider the quantity, I wonder how the cost of making the videos compares to the cost of bringing people here. For someone living in a remote part of the globe, the cost of participation at Wikimania is something like $1500-$2000 (plus whatever costs it incurs on the organizers). Multiply that by a few hundred and the number you get is way higher than the video production costs.
What if there was a sign up sheet for volunteers to record talks that aren't being recorded?
On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 5:11 PM, Tisza Gergő gtisza@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 11:52 AM, Andrew Lih andrew@andrewlih.com wrote:
But I do want to say: the cost/benefit analysis needs to consider the quality of the viewers and not just the quantity.
Even if we only consider the quantity, I wonder how the cost of making the videos compares to the cost of bringing people here. For someone living in a remote part of the globe, the cost of participation at Wikimania is something like $1500-$2000 (plus whatever costs it incurs on the organizers). Multiply that by a few hundred and the number you get is way higher than the video production costs.
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That's a good idea too. Many Wikimedians have at least average quality cameras with video capability. If we could sync average quality video to high quality audio plus slide uploads to Commons, then I think we would do well. Just note that many cameras are limited to taking a half hour of video per file, which I heard is due to European laws that tax "video" equipment at higher rates than "camera" equipment. This may require presenters to pause briefly at half hour intervals for video recording to restart.
Thanks,
Pine On Jul 18, 2015 3:26 PM, "Victor Grigas" vgrigas@wikimedia.org wrote:
What if there was a sign up sheet for volunteers to record talks that aren't being recorded?
On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 5:11 PM, Tisza Gergő gtisza@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 11:52 AM, Andrew Lih andrew@andrewlih.com wrote:
But I do want to say: the cost/benefit analysis needs to consider the quality of the viewers and not just the quantity.
Even if we only consider the quantity, I wonder how the cost of making the videos compares to the cost of bringing people here. For someone living in a remote part of the globe, the cost of participation at Wikimania is something like $1500-$2000 (plus whatever costs it incurs on the organizers). Multiply that by a few hundred and the number you get is way higher than the video production costs.
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For future Wikimanias I'm sure there are some chapters that could loan a video camera and just as importantly tripods - handheld video of a talk can be unsatisfactory. We may even be able to get the chapters to edit and upload their bit of the videoing to commons.
Regards
WereSpielChequers
On 18 Jul 2015, at 17:57, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
That's a good idea too. Many Wikimedians have at least average quality cameras with video capability. If we could sync average quality video to high quality audio plus slide uploads to Commons, then I think we would do well. Just note that many cameras are limited to taking a half hour of video per file, which I heard is due to European laws that tax "video" equipment at higher rates than "camera" equipment. This may require presenters to pause briefly at half hour intervals for video recording to restart.
Thanks,
Pine
On Jul 18, 2015 3:26 PM, "Victor Grigas" vgrigas@wikimedia.org wrote: What if there was a sign up sheet for volunteers to record talks that aren't being recorded?
On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 5:11 PM, Tisza Gergő gtisza@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 11:52 AM, Andrew Lih andrew@andrewlih.com wrote: But I do want to say: the cost/benefit analysis needs to consider the quality of the viewers and not just the quantity.
Even if we only consider the quantity, I wonder how the cost of making the videos compares to the cost of bringing people here. For someone living in a remote part of the globe, the cost of participation at Wikimania is something like $1500-$2000 (plus whatever costs it incurs on the organizers). Multiply that by a few hundred and the number you get is way higher than the video production costs.
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We may have an opportunity to try some of these tactics at a smaller scale at Wikiconference USA later this year. We have few true video cameras among the US affiliates AFAIK but perhaps WMDC, WMF and/ or WEF could rent a few for the occasion.
Pine
It's suboptimal, but here's a video recording I took of our Wikimania 2015 session on Video Production tools (very meta).
https://archive.org/details//videoeditserver-76
It's an example of what you can do on the run with one camcorder, setup close the loudspeaker.
Interestingly, the video recording was processed by the video tool Manuel Schneider and I presented on (double meta!) and side loaded to Internet Archive.
I have about 5-7 other sessions recorded and will try to record more today.
-Andrew
-Andrew Lih Associate professor of journalism, American University Email: andrew@andrewlih.com WEB: http://www.andrewlih.com BOOK: The Wikipedia Revolution: http://www.wikipediarevolution.com PROJECT: Wiki Makes Video http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wiki_Makes_Video
On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 6:19 PM, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
We may have an opportunity to try some of these tactics at a smaller scale at Wikiconference USA later this year. We have few true video cameras among the US affiliates AFAIK but perhaps WMDC, WMF and/ or WEF could rent a few for the occasion.
Pine
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Very interesting, Andrew, thanks for posting! I totally agree that after you have let video footage "ripen up" on your hard drive for a month or more, it is very difficult to convert/edit/upload it as you are emotionally no longer invested in the footage. That is a very valuable point that probably explains why we have so many more photos of Wiki meetups than video footage of Wiki meetups on Commons (let alone all the other stuff that video footage could be used for). Adding the link as the video didn't include it: https://wikimania2015.wikimedia.org/wiki/Submissions/Video_Production_Tools_...
On Sun, Jul 19, 2015 at 3:40 PM, Andrew Lih andrew@andrewlih.com wrote:
It's suboptimal, but here's a video recording I took of our Wikimania 2015 session on Video Production tools (very meta).
https://archive.org/details//videoeditserver-76
It's an example of what you can do on the run with one camcorder, setup close the loudspeaker.
Interestingly, the video recording was processed by the video tool Manuel Schneider and I presented on (double meta!) and side loaded to Internet Archive.
I have about 5-7 other sessions recorded and will try to record more today.
-Andrew
-Andrew Lih Associate professor of journalism, American University Email: andrew@andrewlih.com WEB: http://www.andrewlih.com BOOK: The Wikipedia Revolution: http://www.wikipediarevolution.com PROJECT: Wiki Makes Video http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wiki_Makes_Video
On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 6:19 PM, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
We may have an opportunity to try some of these tactics at a smaller scale at Wikiconference USA later this year. We have few true video cameras among the US affiliates AFAIK but perhaps WMDC, WMF and/ or WEF could rent a few for the occasion.
Pine
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FWIW, I have been audio recording sessions I go to (I'm not set up well for video)--they will not be the best quality but at least they will be there.
-Kat
On Sun, Jul 19, 2015 at 8:40 AM, Andrew Lih andrew@andrewlih.com wrote:
It's suboptimal, but here's a video recording I took of our Wikimania 2015 session on Video Production tools (very meta).
https://archive.org/details//videoeditserver-76
It's an example of what you can do on the run with one camcorder, setup close the loudspeaker.
Interestingly, the video recording was processed by the video tool Manuel Schneider and I presented on (double meta!) and side loaded to Internet Archive.
I have about 5-7 other sessions recorded and will try to record more today.
-Andrew
-Andrew Lih Associate professor of journalism, American University Email: andrew@andrewlih.com WEB: http://www.andrewlih.com BOOK: The Wikipedia Revolution: http://www.wikipediarevolution.com PROJECT: Wiki Makes Video http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wiki_Makes_Video
On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 6:19 PM, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
We may have an opportunity to try some of these tactics at a smaller scale at Wikiconference USA later this year. We have few true video cameras among the US affiliates AFAIK but perhaps WMDC, WMF and/ or WEF could rent a few for the occasion.
Pine
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Hi all, there are some Wikimania 2015 videos available now, guerrilla style:
As you may know, there was no central video recording of Wikimania sessions this year. But with my own camcorder and an iPhone 5, I was able to record 26 sessions at Wikimania of varying quality. You can visit them on this page. Any assistance to help annotate or expand on the chart is appreciated.
https://wikimania2015.wikimedia.org/wiki/Videos
Also, for a glimpse of how arduous the video process can be, see:
https://wikimania2015.wikimedia.org/wiki/Videos#Details
-Andrew
-Andrew Lih Associate professor of journalism, American University Email: andrew@andrewlih.com WEB: http://www.andrewlih.com BOOK: The Wikipedia Revolution: http://www.wikipediarevolution.com PROJECT: Wiki Makes Video http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wiki_Makes_Video
On Sun, Jul 19, 2015 at 12:15 PM, Kat Walsh kat@mindspillage.org wrote:
FWIW, I have been audio recording sessions I go to (I'm not set up well for video)--they will not be the best quality but at least they will be there.
-Kat
On Sun, Jul 19, 2015 at 8:40 AM, Andrew Lih andrew@andrewlih.com wrote:
It's suboptimal, but here's a video recording I took of our Wikimania
2015
session on Video Production tools (very meta).
https://archive.org/details//videoeditserver-76
It's an example of what you can do on the run with one camcorder, setup close the loudspeaker.
Interestingly, the video recording was processed by the video tool Manuel Schneider and I presented on (double meta!) and side loaded to Internet Archive.
I have about 5-7 other sessions recorded and will try to record more
today.
-Andrew
-Andrew Lih Associate professor of journalism, American University Email: andrew@andrewlih.com WEB: http://www.andrewlih.com BOOK: The Wikipedia Revolution: http://www.wikipediarevolution.com PROJECT: Wiki Makes Video http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wiki_Makes_Video
On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 6:19 PM, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
We may have an opportunity to try some of these tactics at a smaller
scale
at Wikiconference USA later this year. We have few true video cameras
among
the US affiliates AFAIK but perhaps WMDC, WMF and/ or WEF could rent a
few
for the occasion.
Pine
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Guillaume, yes, it's nice to have video recording for all Wikimania session - but the question if someone watching them, to worth the money, time and resources.
Wikimedia Israel in Wikimania 2011 invest a lot of money to record everything, time and resources to edit the videos (you need to transfer them for all the cameras, convert them) and time (and a huge bandwidth) to upload all of them. It's a lotttttt of resources just for few hundreds people will watch the videos. To be honest? I don't think it worth that..
*Regards,Itzik Edri* Chairperson, Wikimedia Israel +972-(0)-54-5878078 | http://www.wikimedia.org.il Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. That's our commitment!
On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 4:18 PM, Guillaume Paumier gpaumier@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hello,
First of all, I want to congratulate and thank the Wikimania organizing team for putting together one of the best-organized Wikimanias I've attended. It's easy to only notice the problems, so I wanted to call out the great work explicitly.
My main disappointment this year is that many sessions seem to go unrecorded. In previous years, I seem to recall that videos for most sessions were recorded, and sometimes even streamed live. It sometimes took months for the videos to be processed and uploaded to Commons or other video hosting sites, but the videos existed. If the session isn't taped at all, then the record is lost forever.
We have a lot of talented presenters giving insightful talks and generating great discussions, but only for the benefit of the small subset of our community that's present in the room. If we can't share what happens at Wikimania with our larger community, it seems like a missed opportunity for our movement. Even for Wikimania attendees, when there are up to 8 simultaneous tracks, it's easy to miss sessions you're interested in.
I realize it's probably too late to do anything for this year's Wikimania, but I'd like to start a discussion about making video recordings of all sessions (not just a selection of them) a requirement for upcoming Wikimania bids.
-- Guillaume Paumier
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
What could we do to make it worth it? How could we make the video recordings more interesting to people to watch? Are the sessions in the main room really the most interesting ones for remote watching?
Just a few questions that come up when I read this. Because to be honest, we invest even more money and time in the 'few hundred' people that actually attend the conference. Eventually, it is a matter of finding a balance between value and cost - and I'd love to think a bit more about how we could both increase the value, and decrease the cost.
Lodewijk
On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 4:59 PM, Itzik - Wikimedia Israel < itzik@wikimedia.org.il> wrote:
Guillaume, yes, it's nice to have video recording for all Wikimania session - but the question if someone watching them, to worth the money, time and resources.
Wikimedia Israel in Wikimania 2011 invest a lot of money to record everything, time and resources to edit the videos (you need to transfer them for all the cameras, convert them) and time (and a huge bandwidth) to upload all of them. It's a lotttttt of resources just for few hundreds people will watch the videos. To be honest? I don't think it worth that..
*Regards,Itzik Edri* Chairperson, Wikimedia Israel +972-(0)-54-5878078 | http://www.wikimedia.org.il Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. That's our commitment!
On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 4:18 PM, Guillaume Paumier <gpaumier@wikimedia.org
wrote:
Hello,
First of all, I want to congratulate and thank the Wikimania organizing team for putting together one of the best-organized Wikimanias I've attended. It's easy to only notice the problems, so I wanted to call out the great work explicitly.
My main disappointment this year is that many sessions seem to go unrecorded. In previous years, I seem to recall that videos for most sessions were recorded, and sometimes even streamed live. It sometimes took months for the videos to be processed and uploaded to Commons or other video hosting sites, but the videos existed. If the session isn't taped at all, then the record is lost forever.
We have a lot of talented presenters giving insightful talks and generating great discussions, but only for the benefit of the small subset of our community that's present in the room. If we can't share what happens at Wikimania with our larger community, it seems like a missed opportunity for our movement. Even for Wikimania attendees, when there are up to 8 simultaneous tracks, it's easy to miss sessions you're interested in.
I realize it's probably too late to do anything for this year's Wikimania, but I'd like to start a discussion about making video recordings of all sessions (not just a selection of them) a requirement for upcoming Wikimania bids.
-- Guillaume Paumier
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
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Lodewijk, 18/07/2015 00:03:
Just a few questions that come up when I read this. Because to be honest, we invest even more money and time in the 'few hundred' people that actually attend the conference.
Yes. Wikimania videos were always published too late, when any interest had already faded. A better comparison would be to look at how many people watch FOSDEM (or CCC?) recordings, to assess how wide an audience could be reached by a *functioning* recording scheme.
Nemo
One thing I'd like to do is provide some common infrastructure for this, so anyone with a laptop and a camera they can hook up to it can make a basic recording, live stream it (if the network holds up) and push it up to Commons or at least a staging area when complete. The fancy professionals should be able to hook up their fancy hardware to the same system as well, avoiding the months-long wait for manual transcoding and upload. If venue bandwidth is constrained, start with low resolution output and consider reuploading HD later!
But videos aren't the only way to record or consume info; there are other things we can do to make sessions more available.
I would also suggest that presentation authors include speakers' notes in their PDF slides -- it's fashionable to have bare slides that don't duplicate your words on projection, but people downloading them afterwards don't have your words to follow along with if you don't attach them.
Of course questions and round tables are hard to catch that way... But notes can be taken on etherpads and copied onto the wiki for preservation.
-- brion
On Friday, July 17, 2015, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.org wrote:
What could we do to make it worth it? How could we make the video recordings more interesting to people to watch? Are the sessions in the main room really the most interesting ones for remote watching?
Just a few questions that come up when I read this. Because to be honest, we invest even more money and time in the 'few hundred' people that actually attend the conference. Eventually, it is a matter of finding a balance between value and cost - and I'd love to think a bit more about how we could both increase the value, and decrease the cost.
Lodewijk
On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 4:59 PM, Itzik - Wikimedia Israel < itzik@wikimedia.org.il javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','itzik@wikimedia.org.il');> wrote:
Guillaume, yes, it's nice to have video recording for all Wikimania session - but the question if someone watching them, to worth the money, time and resources.
Wikimedia Israel in Wikimania 2011 invest a lot of money to record everything, time and resources to edit the videos (you need to transfer them for all the cameras, convert them) and time (and a huge bandwidth) to upload all of them. It's a lotttttt of resources just for few hundreds people will watch the videos. To be honest? I don't think it worth that..
*Regards,Itzik Edri* Chairperson, Wikimedia Israel +972-(0)-54-5878078 | http://www.wikimedia.org.il Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. That's our commitment!
On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 4:18 PM, Guillaume Paumier < gpaumier@wikimedia.org javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','gpaumier@wikimedia.org');> wrote:
Hello,
First of all, I want to congratulate and thank the Wikimania organizing team for putting together one of the best-organized Wikimanias I've attended. It's easy to only notice the problems, so I wanted to call out the great work explicitly.
My main disappointment this year is that many sessions seem to go unrecorded. In previous years, I seem to recall that videos for most sessions were recorded, and sometimes even streamed live. It sometimes took months for the videos to be processed and uploaded to Commons or other video hosting sites, but the videos existed. If the session isn't taped at all, then the record is lost forever.
We have a lot of talented presenters giving insightful talks and generating great discussions, but only for the benefit of the small subset of our community that's present in the room. If we can't share what happens at Wikimania with our larger community, it seems like a missed opportunity for our movement. Even for Wikimania attendees, when there are up to 8 simultaneous tracks, it's easy to miss sessions you're interested in.
I realize it's probably too late to do anything for this year's Wikimania, but I'd like to start a discussion about making video recordings of all sessions (not just a selection of them) a requirement for upcoming Wikimania bids.
-- Guillaume Paumier
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If we could get just audio recordings plus slides and any written materials, I think that would be almost as good as video in most cases, at far less cost and complexity.
Cheers, Pine
I like Pine's suggestion.
Audio is much cheaper (still not free for high quality) and easier than video AND 16 bit .WAV is now a free format.
The only consideration is that presentations often involve visual materials.
On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 7:05 PM, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
If we could get just audio recordings plus slides and any written materials, I think that would be almost as good as video in most cases, at far less cost and complexity.
Cheers, Pine
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
In my opinion (and in my position as the responsible for the follow-up for the Wikimedia Conference), we invest and spend a lot of money for the Wikimania each year. Despite of having a relatively broad attendance, the sustainability of Wikimania is doubtful, as there is no clear documentation standard and nobody is committed to track what happened actually at Wikimania itself and afterwards.
Consistent video recoding, despite being expensive, could be a way to improve that. But it has to be done in a good way. That means, 3-4 weeks after the conference videos must be published (at the latest), relevant session recordings must be shared directly with certain target groups (e.g. a Communication session with the ComCom list). And of course, the video must be uploaded on Commons (not on Youtube), so they easier to integrate on wiki pages.
If those standards are met, much more people could actually benefit from the Wikimania, even when they not attended it. E.g., even now videos of interesting and insightful talks of the German internet conference Re:publica are shared in social networks. In the future, that could be also possible for Wikimania talks.
Best Cornelius
On 18 July 2015 at 02:30, Victor Grigas vgrigas@wikimedia.org wrote:
I like Pine's suggestion.
Audio is much cheaper (still not free for high quality) and easier than video AND 16 bit .WAV is now a free format.
The only consideration is that presentations often involve visual materials.
On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 7:05 PM, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
If we could get just audio recordings plus slides and any written materials, I think that would be almost as good as video in most cases, at far less cost and complexity.
Cheers, Pine
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
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I found it rather disappointing to hear that videos are not being recorded. I posted on the information desk regarding this issue last month, hoping that the organizing team would provide a reply and seek help if necessary. [1] Sadly, the coordination page that I have started would have gone to waste. [2]
I believe videos are important. They serve as an archive of the various talks that have happened during Wikimania, and I share the opinion that video recording should be part of the bidding process. The monetary costs may be high, but it benefits many people who are unable to attend the conference to be able to watch the amazing talks offered by the speakers.
Thanks.
[1]: https://wikimania2015.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania:Information_Desk#Videos [2]: https://wikimania2015.wikimedia.org/wiki/Videos
On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 8:43 AM, Cornelius Kibelka < cornelius.kibelka@wikimedia.de> wrote:
In my opinion (and in my position as the responsible for the follow-up for the Wikimedia Conference), we invest and spend a lot of money for the Wikimania each year. Despite of having a relatively broad attendance, the sustainability of Wikimania is doubtful, as there is no clear documentation standard and nobody is committed to track what happened actually at Wikimania itself and afterwards.
Consistent video recoding, despite being expensive, could be a way to improve that. But it has to be done in a good way. That means, 3-4 weeks after the conference videos must be published (at the latest), relevant session recordings must be shared directly with certain target groups (e.g. a Communication session with the ComCom list). And of course, the video must be uploaded on Commons (not on Youtube), so they easier to integrate on wiki pages.
If those standards are met, much more people could actually benefit from the Wikimania, even when they not attended it. E.g., even now videos of interesting and insightful talks of the German internet conference Re:publica are shared in social networks. In the future, that could be also possible for Wikimania talks.
Best Cornelius
On 18 July 2015 at 02:30, Victor Grigas vgrigas@wikimedia.org wrote:
I like Pine's suggestion.
Audio is much cheaper (still not free for high quality) and easier than video AND 16 bit .WAV is now a free format.
The only consideration is that presentations often involve visual materials.
On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 7:05 PM, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
If we could get just audio recordings plus slides and any written materials, I think that would be almost as good as video in most cases, at far less cost and complexity.
Cheers, Pine
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-- Cornelius Kibelka Program and Engagement Coordinator (PEC) for the Wikimedia Conference
Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin Tel. (030) 219 158 26-0 http://wikimedia.de
Stellen Sie sich eine Welt vor, in der jeder Mensch an der Menge allen Wissens frei teilhaben kann. Helfen Sie uns dabei! http://spenden.wikimedia.de/
Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
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For many cases I'd see it practical to have volunteer bloggers who would write summaries on what was talked about. Combining that with slides should fix pretty much all recording problems. Wikipedians could also join in and help with recording of some talks and it is fairly easy to just save audio.
Spending a great amount of time and money to produce quality videos that barely no-one watches isn't reasonable at all. Yes, some most important talks should be recorded, but not all.
Regards Ivo Kuusamägi
2015-07-18 6:23 GMT+03:00 Hydriz Scholz admin@alphacorp.tk:
I found it rather disappointing to hear that videos are not being recorded. I posted on the information desk regarding this issue last month, hoping that the organizing team would provide a reply and seek help if necessary. [1] Sadly, the coordination page that I have started would have gone to waste. [2]
I believe videos are important. They serve as an archive of the various talks that have happened during Wikimania, and I share the opinion that video recording should be part of the bidding process. The monetary costs may be high, but it benefits many people who are unable to attend the conference to be able to watch the amazing talks offered by the speakers.
Thanks.
On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 8:43 AM, Cornelius Kibelka < cornelius.kibelka@wikimedia.de> wrote:
In my opinion (and in my position as the responsible for the follow-up for the Wikimedia Conference), we invest and spend a lot of money for the Wikimania each year. Despite of having a relatively broad attendance, the sustainability of Wikimania is doubtful, as there is no clear documentation standard and nobody is committed to track what happened actually at Wikimania itself and afterwards.
Consistent video recoding, despite being expensive, could be a way to improve that. But it has to be done in a good way. That means, 3-4 weeks after the conference videos must be published (at the latest), relevant session recordings must be shared directly with certain target groups (e.g. a Communication session with the ComCom list). And of course, the video must be uploaded on Commons (not on Youtube), so they easier to integrate on wiki pages.
If those standards are met, much more people could actually benefit from the Wikimania, even when they not attended it. E.g., even now videos of interesting and insightful talks of the German internet conference Re:publica are shared in social networks. In the future, that could be also possible for Wikimania talks.
Best Cornelius
On 18 July 2015 at 02:30, Victor Grigas vgrigas@wikimedia.org wrote:
I like Pine's suggestion.
Audio is much cheaper (still not free for high quality) and easier than video AND 16 bit .WAV is now a free format.
The only consideration is that presentations often involve visual materials.
On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 7:05 PM, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
If we could get just audio recordings plus slides and any written materials, I think that would be almost as good as video in most cases, at far less cost and complexity.
Cheers, Pine
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
--
*Victor Grigas* Storyteller https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/WPZeroPetition and Video Content Producer Wikimedia Foundation vgrigas@wikimedia.org https://donate.wikimedia.org/
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-- Cornelius Kibelka Program and Engagement Coordinator (PEC) for the Wikimedia Conference
Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin Tel. (030) 219 158 26-0 http://wikimedia.de
Stellen Sie sich eine Welt vor, in der jeder Mensch an der Menge allen Wissens frei teilhaben kann. Helfen Sie uns dabei! http://spenden.wikimedia.de/
Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
-- Best regards, Hydriz Scholz
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I suggest we take this on a positive direction and ask the wider community for "virtualisation" proposals/grants immediately after Wikimania, not just to support Wikimania 2016, but all of our other events, potentially down to the level of edit-a-thons (which I have run successfully with live hangouts + IRC participation with no expenses incurred).
Some suggestions in this thread for solutions, such as amateur recording of video casts or audio recording to supplement presentations, are worth facilitating, as would using this conference as a platform to experiment and demonstrate virtual reality presence and remote participation. Even a simple rolling Wikimania google hangout for those that can't be there, to drop in and chat about events and ideas would be great. A someone who is advised to avoid long flights for medical reasons, it would be great to have the opportunity to take part beyond this email and the odd comment on the meta wiki.
Reporting the cost of all aspects of Wikimania is critical. Measuring the return on investment for producing videos is an excellent thing to do, though I would expect when this is compared to the returns and environmental impact of so many international flights, there is more that could be done at a cheaper burn rate than the estimated $1,000 / hour.
Fae
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