Dear Nahid,
I'm sure you've put numerous effort and hard works on the WLM but calling other community members "freaks and assholes" just because they disagree with you is not a good idea. And certainly not a polite way to approach others.
Sorry, but I have no other words for people who systematically undermine our work and spread lies about us and our activities.
In my understanding, you want problematic FoP images uploaded on commons as part of WLM during Sept and then you & other organizers will move the images to local projects under fair use, right? If so, while this is a good and reasonable idea but it gives the impression that Commons community is well aware of the violations and intentionally doing it even though just for a month.
If the Commons community is a responsible community, it will know that all such images should be at least reviewed, and this review takes time. I have quoted the deletion request from last year: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/Files_in_Catego... where photos of 18th-century monuments were going to be deleted. Is that the way you want to proceed?
The responsible approach to this problem is that the no-FOP images are sorted and, when possible, transferred to other projects, so that no useful content is lost. I don't see how this responsible approach can be considered as an "intentional copyright violation", perhaps only in the eyes of those freaks and assholes whom I already mentioned.
If you want to speed up the review and transfer process, please, come and help us with that. Unsurprisingly, no Commons users has ever assisted us in this work.
I would also like to remind you that there are about 1900 no-FOP images from the year 2015. The fact that these images are still on Commons and nobody bothered to delete them, whereas images from 2016 face imminent deletion, makes me believe that some people on Commons deliberately act against WLM, in particular WLM-Russia. This is the main message of my e-mail.
In another part of your mail you've mentioned that "From technical point of view, it is difficult to separate no-FOP monuments from the rest of the monuments, because Commons follows a very strict policy about no-FOP images. " In this case, I think it's best to open a request for comment on commons to sort out the clear defination of the Russian law regarding FoP.
I have neither time nor intention for doing that. Commons has the so-called "Precautionary principle" that can be used to justify the deletion of any file and that is sometimes used for exactly this purpose. As long as Commons works this way, transferring files to other projects is a more viable approach.
Sincerely, Alexander
On 08.09.2016 13:14, Nahid Sultan wrote:
Hey Alexander,
I'm sure you've put numerous effort and hard works on the WLM but calling other community members "freaks and assholes" just because they disagree with you is not a good idea. And certainly not a polite way to approach others.
In my understanding, you want problematic FoP images uploaded on commons as part of WLM during Sept and then you & other organizers will move the images to local projects under fair use, right? If so, while this is a good and reasonable idea but it gives the impression that Commons community is well aware of the violations and intentionally doing it even though just for a month.
In another part of your mail you've mentioned that "From technical point of view, it is difficult to separate no-FOP monuments from the rest of the monuments, because Commons follows a very strict policy about no-FOP images. " In this case, I think it's best to open a request for comment on commons to sort out the clear defination of the Russian law regarding FoP.
Best,
Nahid Sultan
User:NahidSultan https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:NahidSultanon all Wikimedia Foundation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation's public wikis
Secretary, Wikimedia Bangladesh https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Bangladesh
Twitter: @nahidunlimited https://twitter.com/nahidunlimited
*From:* WikiLovesMonuments wikilovesmonuments-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org on behalf of Alexander Tsirlin altsirlin@gmail.com *Sent:* Thursday, September 8, 2016 4:00 PM *To:* wikilovesmonuments@lists.wikimedia.org *Subject:* [Wiki Loves Monuments] WLM photos are deleted on Commons Dear All,
We have a severe problem with some of the photos uploaded during Russian WLM. As some of you may know, Russia has Freedom of Panorama (FOP) for architecture, but not for sculptures. Therefore, photos of recent (post-WWII) sculptures are not eligible for Commons, although they are OK for Russian Wikipedia and Wikivoyage where they are stored under fair use. From technical point of view, it is difficult to separate no-FOP monuments from the rest of the monuments, because Commons follows a very strict policy about no-FOP images. For example, they consider a small sculpture on a building (which is part of an architectural monument) as a separate object that is not covered by FOP. This has been a matter of debate and contention for long time, because the majority of Russian-speaking users tend to go for a softer interpretation and treat such things as architecture (i.e., eligible for Commons), while the minority of Russian-speaking users sitting on Commons is generally hostile to other Russian-speaking projects and tries to create us as many problems as possible.
Last year we found a reasonable procedure that was agreed upon by several Commons admins. Out of 23700 photos uploaded in Russian WLM 2015, about 1900 photos were identified as "no-FOP". We reviewed these images, linked many of them in other projects, and eventually transferred 1280 images to other Russian-speaking projects under fair use. Subsequently, nobody bothered to delete these photos from Commons, one year passed, and of course no legal problems appeared, but from our side we did everything we could do and we spent an enormous amount of time on doing this.
The only request from our side was that no WLM photos are deleted before October 31, 2015, because image transfer is a slow process and it should be done carefully. Last year several Commons admins supported this strategy and closed the most outrageous deletion request:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/Files_in_Catego...
which was submitted by a guy previously expelled from Russian Wikipedia. He wanted to delete about 200 photos all at the same time, and he tried to covertly delete some photos of 18th-century monuments as being "not covered by FOP in Russia"...
So this year a similar story happens again:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/Files_of_User:%... https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/Files_of_User:%D0%9B%D0%B0%D0%B2%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B295_2
Another user - now the one who published defamatory articles about Russian WLM organizers last year - accuses us in severe copyright violations and writes nonsense that we have not done anything about no-FOP photos from 2015. You can check my response to him in the same thread, where I write explicitly how images were sorted and transferred. Once again, we spent days and hours of our time on doing this.
What we need now is the general support of the community against such freaks and assholes who spoil our life and try to undermine the WLM process. The strategy of the Russian team is that all cultural heritage monuments are important for the project. We do not encourage people to upload "no-FOP" photos, but of course people upload them, and our goal is to use these images in the best possible way. Last year we did a lot of work to achieve this goal, and we are ready to do the same this year unless all relevant photos are deleted from Commons immediately, as some of the Commons users suggest. If this happens, I am afraid that WLM will not make any sense for us, at least not on Commons.
Sorry for the long e-mail, and I am looking forward to your support.
Sincerely, Alexander
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