Surely the most useful solution would be to make the Go button redirect non-silently, i.e. in the same way as a real redirect. A wikilink [[Lyon metro]] would still be a redlink, but typing "Lyon metro" in the Go box or the actual URL should bring up [[Lyon Metro]] with the note, "(redirected from _Lyon metro_)", where "Lyon metro" is, of course, a redlink. You can then use that to create the page if you wanted to.
Yes...why didn't I think of that?
Good idea, but maybe it can be improved slightly by assuming that most people are somewhat lazy.
Instead of: (Redirected from _Lyon metro_)
You could have: (Redirected from _Lyon metro_ - _create redirect_)
Where "_create redirect_" would open a preview window at [[Lyon metro]] with the contents already automatically prefilled as "#REDIRECT [[Lyon Metro]]" and the edit description already prefilled as "Redirect to [[Lyon Metro]]". Then if we guess correctly the user does not have to type anything, and only has to click "Save".
Of course, if the "Go" guess is wrong then they do have to type something. That's unavoidable though, but now they have to type less, and also the prefilled content acts as an example of the preferred redirect format.
All the best, Nick.
On 6/5/06, Nick Jenkins nickpj@gmail.com wrote:
Good idea, but maybe it can be improved slightly by assuming that most people are somewhat lazy.
Instead of: (Redirected from _Lyon metro_)
You could have: (Redirected from _Lyon metro_ - _create redirect_)
Sounds good, although "create redirect" doesn't sound totally intuitive to me. Better than the current situation though. What's required for implementation?
Steve
Nick Jenkins wrote:
Surely the most useful solution would be to make the Go button redirect non-silently, i.e. in the same way as a real redirect. A wikilink [[Lyon metro]] would still be a redlink, but typing "Lyon metro" in the Go box or the actual URL should bring up [[Lyon Metro]] with the note, "(redirected from _Lyon metro_)", where "Lyon metro" is, of course, a redlink. You can then use that to create the page if you wanted to.
Yes...why didn't I think of that?
Good idea, but maybe it can be improved slightly by assuming that most people are somewhat lazy.
Instead of: (Redirected from _Lyon metro_)
You could have: (Redirected from _Lyon metro_ - _create redirect_)
I don't understand. If it already redirects automatically, why would you still want to create the redirect?
On 6/8/06, Timwi timwi@gmx.net wrote:
Nick Jenkins wrote:
Surely the most useful solution would be to make the Go button redirect non-silently, i.e. in the same way as a real redirect. A wikilink [[Lyon metro]] would still be a redlink, but typing "Lyon metro" in the Go box or the actual URL should bring up [[Lyon Metro]] with the note, "(redirected from _Lyon metro_)", where "Lyon metro" is, of course, a redlink. You can then use that to create the page if you wanted to.
Yes...why didn't I think of that?
Good idea, but maybe it can be improved slightly by assuming that most people are somewhat lazy.
Instead of: (Redirected from _Lyon metro_)
You could have: (Redirected from _Lyon metro_ - _create redirect_)
I don't understand. If it already redirects automatically, why would you still want to create the redirect?
The "automatic redirection" only occurs if you happen to type the name in the box at the left of screen and press the Go button. In any other situation (linking to it, typing the name in the URL, searching) it doesn't "redirect automatically".
Given that, your question comes down to "why create redirects at all?".
Steve
Steve Bennett wrote:
On 6/8/06, Timwi timwi@gmx.net wrote:
Nick Jenkins wrote:
You could have: (Redirected from _Lyon metro_ - _create redirect_)
I don't understand. If it already redirects automatically, why would you still want to create the redirect?
The "automatic redirection" only occurs if you happen to type the name in the box at the left of screen and press the Go button. In any other situation (linking to it, typing the name in the URL, searching) it doesn't "redirect automatically".
Given that, your question comes down to "why create redirects at all?".
And of course, if the various Search options all got their "Do you mean?" functionality just right, we truly would *not* need all those redirects. Many of them exist not because a commandment on a tablet said we had to create them, but rather, as a workaround for the fact that readers do occasionally type in article names spelled wrong, and we want to make it easier to find what they want, and the software hasn't always been smart enough.
So yes, if the software can tell that a user who typed A probably meant B, and if it can implicitly redirect from A to B, we don't need an explicit redirect from A to B, after all. And having the software do that automatically is obviously preferable to the nuisance of creating and maintaining all those thousands of explicit redirects manually.
The remaining case is that if the software is implicitly redirecting from A to B, but there is some distinction between A and B after all, such that a later editor wants to create a distinct article on A, there must obviously be a way to do so without being trapped by the same implicit redirect.
(Apologies if I'm belaboring the obvious here.)
On 6/8/06, Steve Summit scs@eskimo.com wrote:
And of course, if the various Search options all got their "Do you mean?" functionality just right, we truly would *not* need all those redirects. Many of them exist not because a commandment on a tablet said we had to create them, but rather, as a workaround for the fact that readers do occasionally type in article names spelled wrong, and we want to make it easier to find what they want, and the software hasn't always been smart enough.
I actually mostly make them to prevent anyone else redlinking them and then the same person (or someone else) creating a duplicate article. I probably create on average 5 redirects a day just through random browsing. If my first search term doesn't hit on the right article, I make it a redirect.
Totally agree that the software "should" be smarter about resolving search queries. Totally understand that the developers have other stuff to do.
So yes, if the software can tell that a user who typed A probably meant B, and if it can implicitly redirect from A to B, we don't need an explicit redirect from A to B, after all. And having the
As long as the implicit redirect works in all cases, which it doesn't.
software do that automatically is obviously preferable to the nuisance of creating and maintaining all those thousands of explicit redirects manually.
Yep.
The remaining case is that if the software is implicitly redirecting from A to B, but there is some distinction between A and B after all, such that a later editor wants to create a distinct article on A, there must obviously be a way to do so without being trapped by the same implicit redirect.
Yes. You're also alluding to the basic problem of "a" and "A" mostly being the same, but occasionally being different. It would be "nice" if there was a way of making "Nice" and "nice" different articles, but for many good reasons, that's the compromise that was reached.
(Apologies if I'm belaboring the obvious here.)
No, you're helpfully reducing it to its most basic elements.
Steve
Steve Bennett wrote:
On 6/8/06, Timwi timwi@gmx.net wrote:
Nick Jenkins wrote:
Good idea, but maybe it can be improved slightly by assuming that most people are somewhat lazy.
Instead of: (Redirected from _Lyon metro_)
You could have: (Redirected from _Lyon metro_ - _create redirect_)
I don't understand. If it already redirects automatically, why would you still want to create the redirect?
The "automatic redirection" only occurs if you happen to type the name in the box at the left of screen and press the Go button. In any other situation (linking to it, typing the name in the URL, searching) it doesn't "redirect automatically".
I don't see why it shouldn't?
Timwi
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