I want to add that Okawix uses code from the pre-ZIM GPL'ed ZenoReader and ZenoWriter which has been developed by the openZIM team before we started ZIM, but they changed it to be incompatible with Zeno and ZIM.
So Okawix can be regarded to be as proprietary as well as also a GPL violation.
We have been contacted by Linterweb (the company behind Okawix) several times and we also invited them to the developers meeting, but actually they do not seem to be able for a collaboration with an open source community. The Wikimedia Foundation had a similar experience when trying to work with them.
/Manuel
Am Mittwoch, 2. September 2009 schrieb Gerard Meijssen:
Hoi, For you information Okawix is localised at translatewiki.net. Thanks, GerardM
http://translatewiki.net/wiki/Translating:Okawix
2009/9/2 Manuel Schneider manuel.schneider@wikimedia.ch
Hi Chengbin, hi list,
static.wikimedia.org is currently not being updated and while the dumps processing has been assigned to and completely rewritten by Tomasz Finc (developer at WMF), there has not been made any assignment concerning HTML dumps.
We had a Wikipedia Offline meeting at Wikimania last week and discussed several issues. One issue is the fact, that WMF wants to see the ZIM file format being used for offline dumps and has suggested to include it into the regular dumping process. So one question was: When will that happen, what is the status of WMF ZIM dumping? As ZIM uses HTML extracts Tomasz clarified that once static.wikimedia.orghas been rebuild to be stable and sutainable, integrating ZIM would be trivial. But he also informed us that this task has not yet been assigned.
As Brion Vibber and Erik Möller have been at the meeting as well we hope that this assignment will be made soon and this task has got higher priority.
This said I may also advise you not to you use the pure HTML dumps but the ZIM files for your Archos, because that's what they are meant for. A ZIM file containing all german Wikipedia articles (>900,000) is 1,4 GB, an additional full text search index takes another 1 GB.
Greets,
Manuel
Am Mittwoch, 2. September 2009 schrieb Chengbin Zheng:
I bring this old issue up because I want to know if (or if not) progress (or plans) are made to update the static HTML version of Wikipedia. B&H photos just leaked the next generation of Archos portable media players. Unbelievably, the rumors of a 500GB version is true! This is already tempting (especially the price at $420). Just waiting for specs
on
September 15, the Archos event. I really hope it will support NTFS so I
can
use the compression feature.
It would be really cool and convenient to have an offline copy of
Wikipedia
anywhere I go without the need of Wi-Fi. What am I gonna do with 500GB?
BTW, does anyone know what is the size of the current static HTML English Wikipedia version uncompressed? Thanks. _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
-- Regards Manuel Schneider
Wikimedia CH - Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens Wikimedia CH - Association for the advancement of free knowledge www.wikimedia.ch
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Hoi, Why do you say that it is proprietary and why do you state that there is a GPL violation ? Making accusations like this without providing evidence is not what I expect.
When you look at their website you find that the code can be found here ... http://sourceforge.net/projects/okawix/ so what gives ? Thanks, GerardM
2009/9/2 Manuel Schneider manuel.schneider@wikimedia.ch
I want to add that Okawix uses code from the pre-ZIM GPL'ed ZenoReader and ZenoWriter which has been developed by the openZIM team before we started ZIM, but they changed it to be incompatible with Zeno and ZIM.
So Okawix can be regarded to be as proprietary as well as also a GPL violation.
We have been contacted by Linterweb (the company behind Okawix) several times and we also invited them to the developers meeting, but actually they do not seem to be able for a collaboration with an open source community. The Wikimedia Foundation had a similar experience when trying to work with them.
/Manuel
Am Mittwoch, 2. September 2009 schrieb Gerard Meijssen:
Hoi, For you information Okawix is localised at translatewiki.net. Thanks, GerardM
http://translatewiki.net/wiki/Translating:Okawix
2009/9/2 Manuel Schneider manuel.schneider@wikimedia.ch
Hi Chengbin, hi list,
static.wikimedia.org is currently not being updated and while the
dumps
processing has been assigned to and completely rewritten by Tomasz Finc (developer at WMF), there has not been made any assignment concerning HTML dumps.
We had a Wikipedia Offline meeting at Wikimania last week and discussed several issues. One issue is the fact, that WMF wants to see the ZIM
file
format being used for offline dumps and has suggested to include it
into
the regular dumping process. So one question was: When will that happen, what is the status of WMF
ZIM
dumping? As ZIM uses HTML extracts Tomasz clarified that once static.wikimedia.orghas been rebuild to be stable and sutainable, integrating ZIM would be trivial. But he also informed us that this
task
has not yet been assigned.
As Brion Vibber and Erik Möller have been at the meeting as well we
hope
that this assignment will be made soon and this task has got higher
priority.
This said I may also advise you not to you use the pure HTML dumps but the ZIM files for your Archos, because that's what they are meant for. A ZIM file containing all german Wikipedia articles (>900,000) is 1,4
GB,
an additional full text search index takes another 1 GB.
Greets,
Manuel
Am Mittwoch, 2. September 2009 schrieb Chengbin Zheng:
I bring this old issue up because I want to know if (or if not) progress (or plans) are made to update the static HTML version of Wikipedia. B&H photos just leaked the next generation of Archos portable media players. Unbelievably, the rumors of a 500GB version
is
true! This is already tempting (especially the price at $420). Just waiting for specs
on
September 15, the Archos event. I really hope it will support NTFS so
I
can
use the compression feature.
It would be really cool and convenient to have an offline copy of
Wikipedia
anywhere I go without the need of Wi-Fi. What am I gonna do with
500GB?
BTW, does anyone know what is the size of the current static HTML English Wikipedia version uncompressed? Thanks. _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
-- Regards Manuel Schneider
Wikimedia CH - Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens Wikimedia CH - Association for the advancement of free knowledge www.wikimedia.ch
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
-- Regards Manuel Schneider
Wikimedia CH - Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens Wikimedia CH - Association for the advancement of free knowledge www.wikimedia.ch
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
2009/9/2 Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com:
Hoi, Why do you say that it is proprietary and why do you state that there is a GPL violation ? Making accusations like this without providing evidence is not what I expect.
[snip]
2009/9/2 Manuel Schneider manuel.schneider@wikimedia.ch
I want to add that Okawix uses code from the pre-ZIM GPL'ed ZenoReader and ZenoWriter which has been developed by the openZIM team before we started ZIM, but they changed it to be incompatible with Zeno and ZIM.
Taking code from a GPLed project and putting it in a non-GPLed (or non-GPL-compatible) project is a violation of the GPL.
Roan Kattouw (Catrope)
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Roan Kattouw Verzonden: woensdag 2 september 2009 18:10
Taking code from a GPLed project and putting it in a non-GPLed (or non-GPL-compatible) project is a violation of the GPL.
Well, that is stating the obvious. The question is: what makes Okawix violate the GPL license? Or was it slander?
Siebrand
Hoi, I referred to a place where the code can be found. The code states that it is GPL code. So what are you saying... That it is not ??? Thanks, GerardM
2009/9/2 Roan Kattouw roan.kattouw@gmail.com
2009/9/2 Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com:
Hoi, Why do you say that it is proprietary and why do you state that there is
a
GPL violation ? Making accusations like this without providing evidence
is
not what I expect.
[snip]
2009/9/2 Manuel Schneider manuel.schneider@wikimedia.ch
I want to add that Okawix uses code from the pre-ZIM GPL'ed ZenoReader
and
ZenoWriter which has been developed by the openZIM team before we
started
ZIM, but they changed it to be incompatible with Zeno and ZIM.
Taking code from a GPLed project and putting it in a non-GPLed (or non-GPL-compatible) project is a violation of the GPL.
Roan Kattouw (Catrope)
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Hoi Gerard,
it is indeed a huge improvement that finally the source code was made available. This has not yet came to my sight. So GPL violation does not count here.
Anyway, it took a long time to actually become free. When we were trying to work with Linterweb it took us months to get some patches of the code they took from us, and the patches were actually not usable.
Concerning proprietary format: Zeno was kind of proprietary, but at least it existed some documentation and DirectMedia was willing to answer questions. ZIM is completely open and freely documented, so if you don't like our implementation or you think that C++ is not the language of your choice - feel free and go ahead with your own implementation. As long as you follow the standard!
Of course the file format is not fixed until good right now, so if you have suggestions you could name them on the openZIM mailinglist or file a bug at the openZIM website.
What Linterweb did was just changing random thing without documentation and very bad communication towards the openZIM project team. So I do consider it as proprietary - as it is incompatible with both ZIM and Zeno and there is no willingnes to collaborate to fix this issue.
Both Tommi (the openZIM main developer who has also delivered his Zeno-related code to Linterweb) and Emmanuel (from whom they took Kiwix to make it Okawix) have a long story to tell about this. As well as I have, because I am being addressed regularly by Linterweb as they still try to get code and support, but never really get into the project by telling us what they really want and how we could integrate that into openZIM.
We had a Wikipedia Offline meeting in Buenos Aires and someone named Linterweb. Surprisingly for me they are also quite wellknown to the foundation and more surprisingly they have quite similar views as we have.
I would love to see them using ZIM in Okawix, even if it would require some changes if they feel we had to make it more usable for them (even though I see currently no reason why it was not perfectly usable right now). Of course we invited Linterweb to our first developers meeting and two people from them actually registered (one of them was Pascal Martin, the CEO) so we book rooms for them from our project's budget, but they never showed up. A side story though, but it is an excellent example how collaboration with Linterweb is going on.
Regards,
Manuel
Hi Manuel,
False accusations and the expression of willingness to cooperate usually do not go well together, so thank you for setting it right as soon as possible on this mailing list. Okawix is not violating GPL.
I had a chat with one of their developers yesterday, and from what I hear from their side, as well as what I read from your side, you have a communication issue, and neither side is unwilling to cooperate. However, we are looking at a fork of a GPL licensed project. That means that from a common codebase, two different projects do not necessarily have to go into the same direction. Sometimes that is sad, sometimes that is a huge opportunity.
In my experience communication issues are rarely solved in a public debate.
I wish Wikimedia Switzerland as well as Linterweb the best of luck in providing the best possible offline Wikipedia experience.
Cheers!
Siebrand
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Manuel Schneider Verzonden: donderdag 3 september 2009 8:03
[..]
This has not yet came to my sight. So GPL violation does not count here.
[..]
As well as I have, because I am being addressed regularly by Linterweb as they still try to get code and support, but never really get into the project by telling us what they really want and how we could integrate that into openZIM.
We had a Wikipedia Offline meeting in Buenos Aires and someone named Linterweb. Surprisingly for me they are also quite wellknown to the foundation and more surprisingly they have quite similar views as we have.
I would love to see them using ZIM in Okawix, even if it would require some changes if they feel we had to make it more usable for them (even though I see currently no reason why it was not perfectly usable right now).
[..]
Hoi, You make accusations and they fall flat. You say that the Okawix software is not GPL and it is. You say that the software is proprietary and, because of a lack of communication with YOUR project you call them proprietary... I call it preposterous. When they want to fork, they have every right to do so. Given that by your own admission YOUR code has a file format that is not fixed but you ask people to conform to your standard ??? By the definitions of the GPL it is exactly your actions that make the software you champion proprietary!
Really, you should know better then spout FUD in this way. The sad thing is what you are saying is enough to land you in court because it looks to me like slander.
When I read your story, I find that you insist on other people doing as you say. You may have the best intentions but you cannot compel people in this way. They are a fork, they are GPL software, they care about internationalisation and their localisation is done at translatewiki.net. At that they are ahead of you.
In my opinion you owe the list an apology for your inacurate and inconsiderate accusations. Thanks, GerardM
2009/9/3 Manuel Schneider manuel.schneider@wikimedia.ch
Hoi Gerard,
it is indeed a huge improvement that finally the source code was made available. This has not yet came to my sight. So GPL violation does not count here.
Anyway, it took a long time to actually become free. When we were trying to work with Linterweb it took us months to get some patches of the code they took from us, and the patches were actually not usable.
Concerning proprietary format: Zeno was kind of proprietary, but at least it existed some documentation and DirectMedia was willing to answer questions. ZIM is completely open and freely documented, so if you don't like our implementation or you think that C++ is not the language of your choice - feel free and go ahead with your own implementation. As long as you follow the standard!
Of course the file format is not fixed until good right now, so if you have suggestions you could name them on the openZIM mailinglist or file a bug at the openZIM website.
What Linterweb did was just changing random thing without documentation and very bad communication towards the openZIM project team. So I do consider it as proprietary - as it is incompatible with both ZIM and Zeno and there is no willingnes to collaborate to fix this issue.
Both Tommi (the openZIM main developer who has also delivered his Zeno-related code to Linterweb) and Emmanuel (from whom they took Kiwix to make it Okawix) have a long story to tell about this. As well as I have, because I am being addressed regularly by Linterweb as they still try to get code and support, but never really get into the project by telling us what they really want and how we could integrate that into openZIM.
We had a Wikipedia Offline meeting in Buenos Aires and someone named Linterweb. Surprisingly for me they are also quite wellknown to the foundation and more surprisingly they have quite similar views as we have.
I would love to see them using ZIM in Okawix, even if it would require some changes if they feel we had to make it more usable for them (even though I see currently no reason why it was not perfectly usable right now). Of course we invited Linterweb to our first developers meeting and two people from them actually registered (one of them was Pascal Martin, the CEO) so we book rooms for them from our project's budget, but they never showed up. A side story though, but it is an excellent example how collaboration with Linterweb is going on.
Regards,
Manuel
Regards Manuel Schneider
Wikimedia CH - Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens Wikimedia CH - Association for the advancement of free knowledge www.wikimedia.ch
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Hoi,
I already agreed that I haven't seen the code which is available today under GPL. We are in touch with Linterweb since more than a year (Emmanuel with Kiwix even longer) and it took us several months to get useless patches - at this time Okawix was NOT GPL and NOT available in source code (but yet published and being sold on DVD).
Concerning your other rants you seem not to have read or understood my mail.
openZIM does not prublish offline content and does not provide reader software except it's reference implementation.
It is perfectly okay for me and everyone else I know when they fork Kiwix to Okawix. Kiwix is not openZIM, though. So I can not speak for Kiwix and localisation is no matter to openZIM as well.
ZIM is a standard file format used by many offline readers and ongoing efforts. There is no sense in "forking" a standard. As I pointed out Linterweb is unable to come up with any reasons why the keep changing things and why they are "unable" to just use ZIM and the library which is already there. It would make their lives easier!
For the openZIM team I guess it is pretty irrelevant if Linterweb uses ZIM or not. I have pointed out that the openZIM team and Tommi tried to start a collaboration and where it went.
/Manuel
Am Donnerstag, 3. September 2009 09:19:42 schrieb Gerard Meijssen:
Hoi, You make accusations and they fall flat. You say that the Okawix software is not GPL and it is. You say that the software is proprietary and, because of a lack of communication with YOUR project you call them proprietary... I call it preposterous. When they want to fork, they have every right to do so. Given that by your own admission YOUR code has a file format that is not fixed but you ask people to conform to your standard ??? By the definitions of the GPL it is exactly your actions that make the software you champion proprietary!
Really, you should know better then spout FUD in this way. The sad thing is what you are saying is enough to land you in court because it looks to me like slander.
When I read your story, I find that you insist on other people doing as you say. You may have the best intentions but you cannot compel people in this way. They are a fork, they are GPL software, they care about internationalisation and their localisation is done at translatewiki.net. At that they are ahead of you.
In my opinion you owe the list an apology for your inacurate and inconsiderate accusations. Thanks, GerardM
2009/9/3 Manuel Schneider manuel.schneider@wikimedia.ch
Hoi Gerard,
it is indeed a huge improvement that finally the source code was made available. This has not yet came to my sight. So GPL violation does not count here.
Anyway, it took a long time to actually become free. When we were trying to work with Linterweb it took us months to get some patches of the code they took from us, and the patches were actually not usable.
Concerning proprietary format: Zeno was kind of proprietary, but at least it existed some documentation and DirectMedia was willing to answer questions. ZIM is completely open and freely documented, so if you don't like our implementation or you think that C++ is not the language of your choice - feel free and go ahead with your own implementation. As long as you follow the standard!
Of course the file format is not fixed until good right now, so if you have suggestions you could name them on the openZIM mailinglist or file a bug at the openZIM website.
What Linterweb did was just changing random thing without documentation and very bad communication towards the openZIM project team. So I do consider it as proprietary - as it is incompatible with both ZIM and Zeno and there is no willingnes to collaborate to fix this issue.
Both Tommi (the openZIM main developer who has also delivered his Zeno-related code to Linterweb) and Emmanuel (from whom they took Kiwix to make it Okawix) have a long story to tell about this. As well as I have, because I am being addressed regularly by Linterweb as they still try to get code and support, but never really get into the project by telling us what they really want and how we could integrate that into openZIM.
We had a Wikipedia Offline meeting in Buenos Aires and someone named Linterweb. Surprisingly for me they are also quite wellknown to the foundation and more surprisingly they have quite similar views as we have.
I would love to see them using ZIM in Okawix, even if it would require some changes if they feel we had to make it more usable for them (even though I see currently no reason why it was not perfectly usable right now). Of course we invited Linterweb to our first developers meeting and two people from them actually registered (one of them was Pascal Martin, the CEO) so we book rooms for them from our project's budget, but they never showed up. A side story though, but it is an excellent example how collaboration with Linterweb is going on.
Regards,
Manuel
Regards Manuel Schneider
Wikimedia CH - Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens Wikimedia CH - Association for the advancement of free knowledge www.wikimedia.ch
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Hoi, I have read your mail and it does not address the point that I am making at all. What you write is not relevant as it does not address the central issue. The central issue is that you accuse another project of infringement on the GPL and you assert that it is proprietary software.
Given that YOU stated that other implementations have to comply with what "your" project does, you are as a result in breach of the GPL yourself and you make what you do proprietary. The fact that you acknowledge that you did not look at the code is a long way from an apology. The way you tried to gloss over your notion of proprietary is pathetic.
When you fail to find satisfactory collaboration, there are many reasons why this happened. They are not really relevant because at issue is issuing FUD and making representations of the other party that are ill considered and manifestly wrong. The best you can do is publicly apologise.
This is the last time I use this mailing list for this subject. Thanks, GerardM
PS I feel strongly about the proper understanding of licenses, if you want to know why see my Wikimania presentation about testing.
2009/9/3 Manuel Schneider manuel.schneider@wikimedia.ch
Hoi,
I already agreed that I haven't seen the code which is available today under GPL. We are in touch with Linterweb since more than a year (Emmanuel with Kiwix even longer) and it took us several months to get useless patches - at this time Okawix was NOT GPL and NOT available in source code (but yet published and being sold on DVD).
Concerning your other rants you seem not to have read or understood my mail.
openZIM does not prublish offline content and does not provide reader software except it's reference implementation.
It is perfectly okay for me and everyone else I know when they fork Kiwix to Okawix. Kiwix is not openZIM, though. So I can not speak for Kiwix and localisation is no matter to openZIM as well.
ZIM is a standard file format used by many offline readers and ongoing efforts. There is no sense in "forking" a standard. As I pointed out Linterweb is unable to come up with any reasons why the keep changing things and why they are "unable" to just use ZIM and the library which is already there. It would make their lives easier!
For the openZIM team I guess it is pretty irrelevant if Linterweb uses ZIM or not. I have pointed out that the openZIM team and Tommi tried to start a collaboration and where it went.
/Manuel
Am Donnerstag, 3. September 2009 09:19:42 schrieb Gerard Meijssen:
Hoi, You make accusations and they fall flat. You say that the Okawix software is not GPL and it is. You say that the software is proprietary and,
because
of a lack of communication with YOUR project you call them proprietary...
I
call it preposterous. When they want to fork, they have every right to do so. Given that by your own admission YOUR code has a file format that is not fixed but you ask people to conform to your standard ??? By the definitions of the GPL it is exactly your actions that make the software you champion proprietary!
Really, you should know better then spout FUD in this way. The sad thing
is
what you are saying is enough to land you in court because it looks to me like slander.
When I read your story, I find that you insist on other people doing as
you
say. You may have the best intentions but you cannot compel people in
this
way. They are a fork, they are GPL software, they care about internationalisation and their localisation is done at translatewiki.net
.
At that they are ahead of you.
In my opinion you owe the list an apology for your inacurate and inconsiderate accusations. Thanks, GerardM
2009/9/3 Manuel Schneider manuel.schneider@wikimedia.ch
Hoi Gerard,
it is indeed a huge improvement that finally the source code was made available. This has not yet came to my sight. So GPL violation does not count here.
Anyway, it took a long time to actually become free. When we were
trying
to work with Linterweb it took us months to get some patches of the
code
they took from us, and the patches were actually not usable.
Concerning proprietary format: Zeno was kind of proprietary, but at least it existed some
documentation
and DirectMedia was willing to answer questions. ZIM is completely open and freely documented, so if you don't like our implementation or you think that C++ is not the language of your choice
feel free and go ahead with your own implementation. As long as you follow the standard!
Of course the file format is not fixed until good right now, so if you have suggestions you could name them on the openZIM mailinglist or file
a
bug at the openZIM website.
What Linterweb did was just changing random thing without documentation and very bad communication towards the openZIM project team. So I do consider it as proprietary - as it is incompatible with both ZIM and Zeno and there is no willingnes to collaborate to fix this issue.
Both Tommi (the openZIM main developer who has also delivered his Zeno-related code to Linterweb) and Emmanuel (from whom they took Kiwix to make it Okawix) have a long story to tell about this. As well as I have, because I am being addressed regularly by Linterweb
as
they still try to get code and support, but never really get into the
project
by telling us what they really want and how we could integrate that
into
openZIM.
We had a Wikipedia Offline meeting in Buenos Aires and someone named Linterweb. Surprisingly for me they are also quite wellknown to the foundation and more surprisingly they have quite similar views as we have.
I would love to see them using ZIM in Okawix, even if it would require some changes if they feel we had to make it more usable for them (even though I see currently no reason why it was not perfectly usable right now). Of course we invited Linterweb to our first developers meeting
and
two people from them actually registered (one of them was Pascal Martin, the CEO)
so
we book rooms for them from our project's budget, but they never showed
up.
A side story though, but it is an excellent example how collaboration with Linterweb is going on.
Regards,
Manuel
Regards Manuel Schneider
Wikimedia CH - Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens Wikimedia CH - Association for the advancement of free knowledge www.wikimedia.ch
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
-- Regards Manuel Schneider
Wikimedia CH - Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens Wikimedia CH - Association for the advancement of free knowledge www.wikimedia.ch
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 4:09 AM, Gerard Meijssengerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
Hoi, I have read your mail and it does not address the point that I am making at all. What you write is not relevant as it does not address the central issue. The central issue is that you accuse another project of infringement on the GPL and you assert that it is proprietary software. count
Gerard, please stop harassing this person. It is a disgrace.
Some months ago I went looking for the zim format and reader tool and was unable to find the source and concluded that it was proprietary. I did not know that it was based on GPLed software or I would have been making noise myself.
The sourceforge project has only existed since *May*. The code has only ever been downloaded 63 times, twice by me and there are zero packaged files released. The sourceforge page does not show up high in google search. That the source is now released is a great thing, but it would have been very easy to miss.
Making sure the incorrect statement were corrected is a good thing but you and Siebrand are coming across as extremely hostile. I am not even the target of your harassment and yet it makes my skin crawl. Please discontinue it.
Hello all,
I hope that any confusion about our work, and our respect of the GPL Licence, is now lifted.
If the last discord point with openZim Team is about our lack of support for the Zim format, we will attend the upcoming meeting in Germany and discuss it with them.
Greets Martin Pascal tel : 02 32 40 23 69, fax : 02 32 61 45 26 gsm : 06 13 89 77 32 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gregory Maxwell" gmaxwell@gmail.com To: "Wikimedia developers" wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 4:45 PM Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Any news to update static HTML Wikipedia?
On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 4:09 AM, Gerard Meijssengerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
Hoi, I have read your mail and it does not address the point that I am making at all. What you write is not relevant as it does not address the central issue. The central issue is that you accuse another project of infringement on the GPL and you assert that it is proprietary software. count
Gerard, please stop harassing this person. It is a disgrace.
Some months ago I went looking for the zim format and reader tool and was unable to find the source and concluded that it was proprietary. I did not know that it was based on GPLed software or I would have been making noise myself.
The sourceforge project has only existed since *May*. The code has only ever been downloaded 63 times, twice by me and there are zero packaged files released. The sourceforge page does not show up high in google search. That the source is now released is a great thing, but it would have been very easy to miss.
Making sure the incorrect statement were corrected is a good thing but you and Siebrand are coming across as extremely hostile. I am not even the target of your harassment and yet it makes my skin crawl. Please discontinue it.
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Hi Pascal,
I am happy to hear that this has been sorted out and again I want to publicly say that I am happy that the Okawix source is available now. It is your person and your project I have to give apologize to for having missed that and stated otherwise.
I am even more happy to read that there is a new effort in making colaboration between openZIM and Linterweb making happen.
Everything else I guess is already said, on one of our many sessions in IRC we had earlier and recently.
Let's get back to work.
/Manuel
Am 3.9.2009 schrieb "Martin Pascal" pmartin@linterweb.fr:
Hello all,
I hope that any confusion about our work, and our respect of the GPL Licence, is now lifted.
If the last discord point with openZim Team is about our lack of support for the Zim format, we will attend the upcoming meeting in Germany and discuss it with them.
Greets Martin Pascal tel : 02 32 40 23 69, fax : 02 32 61 45 26 gsm : 06 13 89 77 32 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gregory Maxwell" gmaxwell@gmail.com To: "Wikimedia developers" wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 4:45 PM Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Any news to update static HTML Wikipedia?
On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 4:09 AM, Gerard Meijssengerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
Hoi, I have read your mail and it does not address the point that I am making at all. What you write is not relevant as it does not address the central issue. The central issue is that you accuse another project of infringement on the GPL and you assert that it is proprietary software. count
Gerard, please stop harassing this person. It is a disgrace.
Some months ago I went looking for the zim format and reader tool and was unable to find the source and concluded that it was proprietary. I did not know that it was based on GPLed software or I would have been making noise myself.
The sourceforge project has only existed since *May*. The code has only ever been downloaded 63 times, twice by me and there are zero packaged files released. The sourceforge page does not show up high in google search. That the source is now released is a great thing, but it would have been very easy to miss.
Making sure the incorrect statement were corrected is a good thing but you and Siebrand are coming across as extremely hostile. I am not even the target of your harassment and yet it makes my skin crawl. Please discontinue it.
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Hi Greg,
I guess you've looked into something else.
openZIM was never hosted on SourceForge, exists since Jan 2009 and its source code has been since then available via our svn on openzim.org (as well as the documentation of the file format).
I was the one who blamed Linterweb to have used the open source Zeno implementation (which was the basis of the openZIM foundation) in their Okawix reader application without making the modified code available online.
From a today's perspective my accusitions were wrong - we had a lot of
discussion over several month conderning this and I talked to Pascal Martin from Linterweb about this over and over again when the code was NOT available. But finally it has been released, so my statement about the GPL violation is wrong (it was true for many months, though).
The only point left was to say that Okawix uses a modified Zeno-format which is not a documented standard. That is why I consider it as being "proprietary" as the goal of openZIM (supported by the Wikimedia Foundation) is to have an open file format, so all data files can be freely exchanged with any reader application.
Zeno evolved into ZIM and is much better than Zeno, has an active developers base of many projects which use ZIM in their reader applications. openZIM provides a Free and open source implementation of the ZIM format and is also the project where the standardisation work is being done. So everyone interested in using ZIM or in making suggestions how to improve it can file a bug or post to the openZIM mailinglist. That is exactly what did not work out with Linterweb, which I was refering to as "unable to colaborate". I am very happy to see that changing.
I hope I could clarify some points now. I really don't want to go that flaming on further, but I think happy news should be named here as well as a counterweight to my earlier statements.
More information can be found here: http://wikimania2009.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proceedings:96 http://wikimania2009.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:200908271434-Manuel_Schneider-o... http://openzim.org/ http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Offline_readers
/Manuel
Am 3.9.2009 schrieb "Gregory Maxwell" gmaxwell@gmail.com:
On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 4:09 AM, Gerard Meijssengerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
Hoi, I have read your mail and it does not address the point that I am making at all. What you write is not relevant as it does not address the central issue. The central issue is that you accuse another project of infringement on the GPL and you assert that it is proprietary software. count
Gerard, please stop harassing this person. It is a disgrace.
Some months ago I went looking for the zim format and reader tool and was unable to find the source and concluded that it was proprietary. I did not know that it was based on GPLed software or I would have been making noise myself.
The sourceforge project has only existed since *May*. The code has only ever been downloaded 63 times, twice by me and there are zero packaged files released. The sourceforge page does not show up high in google search. That the source is now released is a great thing, but it would have been very easy to miss.
Making sure the incorrect statement were corrected is a good thing but you and Siebrand are coming across as extremely hostile. I am not even the target of your harassment and yet it makes my skin crawl. Please discontinue it.
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wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org